PBS高端访谈:谈谈工作中的性别不平等（在线收听）

MEGAN THOMPSON: The past year has surfaced countless tales of workplace harassment. But there's a correlation between these events and gender inequalities that have long existed in a working world. The findings are part of the fourth annual Women in the Workplace survey of more than 64,000 workers across nearly 300 companies. The Wall Street Journal has been publishing a series of reports about women, men and work. Editor Lynn Cook joined NewsHour Weekend's Hari Srinivasan to discuss.

HARI SREENIVASAN: One of the things that struck out from the survey was more than a third of women reported that they had been harassed at some point in their careers. Now this is a survey that goes out probably, mostly to white collar workers, so this might be underreported? That's a staggering number!

LYNN COOK: It's a staggering number and you're right because this survey was, companies that participated, care about this issue and it tended to be more white collar workers than a lot of say hotel or retail or restaurant workers that we already know experience harassment at greater rates. But even among those mostly white collar workers at big companies that tend to take gender diversity seriously, 35 percent said they were harassed.

HARI SREENIVASAN: This is the fourth year that the survey is coming out. What's different now in sort of in the post MeToo climate?

LYNN COOK: Well this is the first year they've actually surveyed sexual harassment. They've asked those questions. And so what was shocking is that not only are a third of women experiencing harassment but if you're a woman in a male-dominated role like a technical role, it's even more, it's 45 percent of those women say they've been harassed. In senior leadership, like women in executive roles, 55 percent said they have been harassed. There's a company called Conversant that runs these hotlines where people can call in their complaints and the calls jumped by 72 percent in this last year. So there was a huge uptick.

HARI SREENIVASAN: One of the survey questions you asked, needing to provide more evidence of my competence than others do, 44 percent of women said yes, only 13 percent of men said yes.

LYNN COOK: Right.

HARI SREENIVASAN: It's regardless of how qualified they are. They have to do more.

LYNN COOK: That's the feeling that come, that's at least with this data showing that you know, sexual harassment aside, there are other kinds of discrimination that women are constantly struggling against. It's maybe more subtle and a lot of it might be, you know, unintended. But women often get mistaken for more junior people. They feel they have to say, you know, really fight to be heard in meetings. They're frequently feeling like they have to

HARI SREENIVASAN: Especially if they're one of the fewer women that are these meetings where the decision to be made?

LYNN COOK: Right. That's another, that's another piece of the data that was really interesting this year. This idea that if you're the only one in the room, the only one on your team, the only one in your building, in some cases for like, black women especially, you experience work in a very negative way. And it might not be outright harassment, but again, these more subtle forms of discrimination. So when you're the only one in the room, those women said they were less likely to even stay at a job. They actually think a lot more about leaving. So companies in the survey, you know, were kind of surprised to hear that because for all the talk about recruiting, getting more people of color, more women in the doors, actually retaining them and getting them to stay, is a whole different equation.

HARI SREENIVASAN: And there's also a, almost a men are from Mars, women are from Venus perception of how this state of work is playing out.

One of the things, "My gender played a role in missing out on a raise, promotion or a chance to get ahead." Only eight percent of men suggested that and 24 percent of women said yes to that.

LYNN COOK: There's a huge disparity. It's like there's two different workplaces going on in the same workplace where men frequently feel like things are fine and women feel like they're not fine.

HARI SREENIVASAN: It's a fascinating survey and there are several stories in The Wall Street Journal about this. Lynne Cook thanks for joining us.

LYNN COOK: Thank you.

梅根·汤普森：去年，职场性骚扰的案例层出不穷。但这些事件与工作场所长期以来一直存在的性别不平等之间是有联系的。上述发现是第四期《职场女性》调研的部分内容，这次调研的对象有6.4万多来自近300家公司的员工。《华尔街日报》发布了一系列有关女性、男性和工作的报告。编辑林恩·库克加入了《新闻一小时》周末档，跟哈里·斯里尼瓦桑一同讨论这个问题。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：此次调研的一个突出问题是：有1/3以上的女性称自己在职业生涯中曾受过性骚扰。此次调研主要是面向白领员工的，所以这种现象可能一直没有得到充分的报道？毕竟这个数字可不小啊！

林恩·库克：这不是小数字，你说得对，因为这个调研是很多公司都关心的问题。似乎白领工作者受到性骚扰的比率要比酒店员工、零售员工、餐厅员工高，这与很多人的印象不同。但即便是在更倾向于注重性别多样化的一些大公司里，虽然白领员工占大多数，但还是有35%的人表示他们曾受到过性骚扰。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：这是该研究面向公众的第四年。现在#我也是运动风生水起，是否会产生一些不同呢？

林恩·库克：这是他们第一年真实调研到有关性骚扰的问题。大家之前就有问过这样的问题。但让人震惊的是：不仅有1/3的女性经历过性骚扰，而且如果女性承担着男性主导的工作，比如技术类工作，那么受到性骚扰的情况更多。45%从事男性主导工作的女性表示自己曾受到过性骚扰。就高层领导来看，比如担任主管类工作的女性中，55%的人表示曾受到过性骚扰。有一家名为Conversant的公司经营着一些热线，公众可以打来电话进行投诉。而在刚刚过去的一年中，电话量增长了72%，有了大幅提高。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：调研的其中一个问题是：你是否觉得自己要比其他人更需要证明能力。44%的女性认为是，只有13%的男性认为不是。

林恩·库克：没错。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：这与女性能力有多强无关，女性就是要做更多才能受到认可。

林恩·库克：这种感觉大家都有，至少从接下来的数据中可见一二：抛开性骚扰不谈，还有一些歧视是女性一直无法摆脱的。这些歧视可能悄无声息，不容易为人所察觉。而且资历较浅的女性总是被误解。她们会觉得自己必须要很努力才能在会议上让自己的声音为人所听见。她们总是有这种感觉。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：尤其是当会议要进行决策，而在场的女性数量又很少的时候。

林恩·库克：没错，这是今年也很有意思的数据。这种感觉就是：如果你是屋子里唯一的女性、团队里唯一的女性、楼里唯一的女性的话，尤其是你还是黑人的时候，你的工作总是会遭遇负面情绪。这可能是直接的骚扰，但也可能是不那么容易为人察觉的歧视。所以如果你是屋子里唯一的女性的话，正如一些女性朋友所说的，她们连工作都不想要了。她们满脑子想的都是离职。所以，调研里的一些公司听到这样的数据都很意外，因为在录用员工的时候，他们会想要更多有色人种、更多的女性，甚至会挽留女性，这跟数据完全不同。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：还有一种想法是：男性来自火星，女性来自金星。还有人说，“生而为女，所以我无法加薪、无法升值，也没有机会走得更高。”只有8%的男性这样认为，而24%的女性都表示肯定。

林恩·库克：男女不平等现象十分严重。就好像明明他们是在同一个场所工作，却好像又是完全不同的场所一样，因为男性感觉良好，而女性感觉糟糕。

哈里·斯里尼瓦桑：这个调研很棒，《华尔街日报》也有关于该主题的一些报道。林恩·库克，感谢您加入我们的节目。

林恩·库克：谢谢大家。