PBS高端访谈:美国退伍女兵面临的窘境（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: One of the most stressful jobs in the military belongs to members of the Explosive Ordnance Disposal unit, or EOD. In this week's Brief But Spectacular episode, in honor of Veterans Day, three female former EOD members now with the Boulder Crest Retreat in Arizona, a facility that specializes in post-traumatic growth, talk about their experiences and their recovery.

JUDY ELLIS, U.S. Veteran: I was diagnosed with PTSD in 2004. They gave me the pills and said, vaya con dios.

TIANA STRAUB, U.S. Veteran: That's just what we keep telling us, is that we have PTSD, and it's not curable, and that they can just help us manage it.

JAMIE MCCRARY, U.S. Veteran: I just didn't have the courage to tell anybody that I was struggling, until it just got to a point that I just couldn't hold it in anymore, and I would just, I was crying every day, and I don't even know what I was crying about.

TIANA STRAUB: Went in and wanted to be a medic, actually. And they had no medics slots open. So, I was like, well, let's see what you have. One of the first things that popped up was EOD. I asked them, like, what's EOD? And he explained that we work with robots, we work with explosives. He is like, it's pretty much like bomb squad for the military. And I was like, so, I can do that, even if I'm a girl? And he's like, yes.

JAMIE MCCRARY: What they try to impress upon you is that one little mistake, even though it doesn't seem very large, could cost you your life.

JUDY ELLIS: When I was an EOD tech, they didn't have bomb suits or robots. You just had to walk up and engage. At the time I joined the Marine Corps, it was 2 percent female, you know, but they didn't want any of us. We were congressional nuisance, and you consistently had to be proving yourself.

JAMIE MCCRARY: I mean, the male-to-female ratio in the military is already pretty imbalanced, and then, in EOD, even more so.

TIANA STRAUB: Boys will be boys. Sometimes, the things that entertain them are, I can't say that on camera.

JAMIE MCCRARY: It made me a tougher person. But and then it also made me this closed-off person that I eventually became.

JUDY ELLIS: I did 20 years in the Marine Corps. And so, after 20 years, you're kind of institutionalized. So then I had to transition into, what am I going do next?

JAMIE MCCRARY: It was such a strange transition for me, to go from living a life that was so structured, and I didn't really have to think about much. It was just, do your job, go home, wash, rinse, repeat, do it again. And then, all of a sudden, I step out into the civilian world, and I'm back to just being Jamie.

TIANA STRAUB: I had three spine surgeries after I got out of, got back from my deployment. And that was really hard for me. And so I got very depressed.

JAMIE MCCRARY: Just waking up in the morning and mustering the strength to just get out of bed to go to work, that was all I was, that's all I was capable of doing.

JUDY ELLIS: When you have more time and you're more solitude and you think to yourself, then all this stuff starts coming up. And I realized, I said realizing, I need help.

TIANA STRAUB: The PATHH program was actually the first place they told us that there's nothing wrong with us, that any sort of traumatic experience you had could be used as an opportunity to grow.

JUDY ELLIS: They have a slogan here. It's: It's not you, it's just what happened. When I first got here, and I saw, I don't cry about anything, but I haven't seen an EOD woman since 1981. I literally cried because I was like, they're really here. They do exist, these other EOD women that have struggles and issues.

TIANA STRAUB: While we have been here in Arizona, in the PATHH program, we got to do equine therapy. They told us that horses will reflect your emotions.

JUDY ELLIS: I'm up there, and I'm Jane Wayne. But then, when I was able to calm down, I'm like, yes. The big horse is not a bomb. It's not going to hurt you. You can just be, go up and be gentle, and the whole idea of not everything in life is going to hurt you.

JAMIE MCCRARY: For me, it was just forgiving people who have done me wrong and forgiving myself for allowing myself to just get to this point of just absolute hatred of who I am. And that's what I'm working on.

JUDY ELLIS, U.S. Veteran: My name is Judy Ellis.

TIANA STRAUB: My name is Ti.

JAMIE MCCRARY: My name is Jamie McCrary, and this is my Brief But Spectacular take...

JUDY ELLIS: ... on post-traumatic growth.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Very tough to watch. And you can find additional Brief But Spectacular eisodes on our Web site. That's PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：军队里压力最大的工种是负责爆炸性军械处理（EOD）的军人。本期的《简短而精彩》在老兵节来到来之际，邀请了3位前EOD部门的女兵，她们来自亚利桑那州博尔德。这里专门对老兵进行创后恢复，跟老兵们聊他们的经历和恢复情况。

朱迪·埃利斯，美国，老兵：2004年，我确诊为创伤后应激障碍。他们给了我药丸，然后说：上帝与你同在。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布，美国老兵：他们总跟我们说这样的话——我们有创伤后应激障碍，这种病是无药可医的，而他们可以帮我们控制住病情。

杰米·麦凯瑞，美国老兵：我没有勇气告诉大家我很痛苦，直到我再也承受不住了，然后我每天就泪流满面，我都不知道我在为什么而流泪。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：其实我来到这里是想做一名医师的。但是他们没有开设，所以我就想看看他们这里可以做什么。而第一个浮现在我眼前的就是EOD。我问他们，EOD是什么。他解释说，我们是跟机器人打交道的，是和爆炸物打交道的。他的感觉就像是防爆小组。我就回答说，即便是女孩，我也可以做，对吗？他回答是的。

杰米·麦凯瑞：他们有一点让人印象深刻——即便是一个小错误，即便看起来无关紧要，也会让人丢掉性命。

朱迪·埃利斯：我在EOD技术部门工作的时候，还没有炸弹套组和机器人。只能我们自己动手。我加入海军陆战队的时候，那里只有2%的人是女性，而且他们也不欢迎女性。国会觉得我们是个麻烦，所以我们只能不断证明自己。

杰米·麦凯瑞：我的意思是：军队里的男女比例已经很失调了，在EOD里就更加失调了。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：男生永远是男生。有时候，他们感觉很有乐趣的东西是——我在镜头里不能说。

杰米·麦凯瑞：这段经历让我成为了更加坚强的人。但也让我最后成了如此孤僻的人。

朱迪·埃利斯：我在海军陆战队工作了20年。出来之后，我就有些不习惯了。我必须要考虑接下来做什么的问题。

杰米·麦凯瑞：这个过渡期对于我来说有些异样，因为我必须要从千篇一律的生活中脱离出来，但我之前根本没有想过这件事。在军队里的时候，我只需要完成自己的任务，然后回家洗衣服，如此反复。而突然之间，我就来到了平凡人的生活，要做我自己了。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：我完成部署的任务后，做了3次脊椎手术。这段经历很痛苦，我感到非常压抑。

杰米·麦凯瑞：每天早上起床后，我都用拼尽全力从床上下来去工作。这是我生活的全部，我只能做这些事情。

朱迪·埃利斯：当我有了更多的时间的时候，我更喜欢独处。独处的时候，我会思考，然后所有这些思绪涌上心头。然后我意识到，我需要帮助。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：在PATHH项目里，第一次有人告诉我，我们并没有做错什么。我们只是有创痛的经历而已，这也是我们成长的机会。是、

朱迪·埃利斯：这里有一句口号——不是你的错，只是造化弄人。我刚到这里的时候，看到这句标语，我没有缘由地就哭了。但是自1981年以来，我从未见过有EOD的女性来过这里。我当时哭大概是因为跟我同病相怜的人原来真的存在。他们真地存在，他们也曾在EOD工作，跟我一样是女性，跟我一样有自己的挣扎和苦恼。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：我们在亚利桑那州的时候，PATHH要求我们做马运动治疗和康复。他们告诉我们，马可以反映我们的情绪。

朱迪·埃利斯：我在这儿，我是简·韦恩。然后，我就能平静下来，给自己以肯定。大马不是炸弹，不会伤害人的。我们可以勇敢上前，温柔以待。我们会把握住一个总体的感觉——不是任何事情都会伤人的。

杰米·麦凯瑞：对我来说，就是要原谅那些对我误解我的人，也原谅我自己把自己变成这样一个非黑即白、充满仇恨的人。这是我一直在努力的方向。

朱迪·埃利斯，美国老兵：我是朱迪·埃利斯。

蒂安娜·斯特劳布：我是蒂安娜。

杰米·麦凯瑞：我是杰米·麦凯瑞，这是我本期分享的《简短而精彩》。

朱迪·埃利斯：主题是创后恢复。

朱迪·伍德拉夫：我们看了很心疼。想要收听其他期的《简短而精彩》，可以登录PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief。