PBS高端访谈:以色列作家阿摩司·奥兹去世（在线收听）

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: We wanted to take time tonight to remember the renowned Israeli author Amos Oz. He died today of cancer at the age of 79. His novels, essays and short stories made him one of Israel's most widely read writers. His work was praised worldwide, and he was said to be a longtime contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature. Oz wrote over 40 books, including Black Box, In the Land of Israel, and his acclaimed 2002 memoir, A Tale of Love and Darkness, which chronicled his tumultuous childhood and his mother's suicide when he was just 12 years old. Born Amos Klausner, he changed his name to Oz, which is Hebrew for courage, at the age of 14. Throughout his life, Oz was a leading advocate for peace with the Palestinians, supporting a two-state solution as the best approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He appeared on the NewsHour several times, most recently in 2016, when Jeffrey Brown sat down with Oz for a wide-ranging interview. Oz spoke of how characters drive his novels.

AMOS OZ, Author: Always characters first.

JEFFREY BROWN: Always?

AMOS OZ: And I walk around pregnant with the characters for a long time before I write a single sentence. And when, inside my head or inside my guts, the characters begin to do things to each other, what they do to each other is the plot. And then I can start writing. What do we do to one another? It's the one and only subject of literature, if you really have to squeeze it in a nutshell.

JEFFREY BROWN: What is the job or role of a writer in a country like Israel?

AMOS OZ: I resent the very term role of writers or role of literature. I'm sorry. I think the right term should be the gift of literature, not the role of literature.

JEFFREY BROWN: The gift?

AMOS OZ: Yes. Makes us look one more time at some things which we have seen a million times, and we see them afresh. Or, sometimes, it makes us reconsider things that we were sure we knew or we were sure we were convinced of.

JEFFREY BROWN: But is it different in a country such as Israel?

AMOS OZ: I don't think so, no. I don't think so. I think literature is based on the deep human need to hear stories and to tell stories. It doesn't have to serve any other purpose.

JEFFREY BROWN: You have advocated a two-state idea long before it was a diplomatic solution, right? Is that two-state solution dead?

AMOS OZ: I don't think so. I don't see any alternative to the two-state solution. It is 50 years now since I and a few of my colleagues first advocated the two-state solution. Fifty years is a long time in my life, but it's a very short time in history. Look, it's very simple. There are two nations rightly claiming the same tiny land. They just don't trust the other. There is a lack of courageous leadership on both sides. You know, it's like a patient knowing that he has to undergo a surgery, wanting to postpone it because it's painful. But the doctors are cowards. They don't have the guts to tell the patient, let's do it now. The sooner, the better.

JEFFREY BROWN: You still have hope for it?

AMOS OZ: Of course, because I see no alternative.

威廉·布兰汉姆：今晚的节目主题是缅怀知名以色列作家阿摩斯·奥兹。他今天去世了，享年79岁。他的小说、随笔和短文让他成为以色列作品阅读量最大的作家。他的作品广受赞誉。而且据说他一直是获得诺贝尔文学奖的有力竞争者。奥兹写过40多本书，包括《黑匣子》、《在以色列国土上》以及他2002年备受称赞的回忆录《爱与黑暗的故事》。这本回忆录以时间顺序记叙了他的同年和他年仅12岁时母亲的自杀。他的本名是阿摩斯·克劳斯纳，后来才改成了奥兹。奥兹是希伯来语，意思是勇气。他改名的时候是14岁。奥兹终生都极力推崇与巴勒斯坦人和平相处，支持两国方案，认为两国方案是解决巴以冲突最好的方式。他曾多次参加《新闻一小时》节目，最近的一次是在2016年。当时杰弗里·布朗采访了他，谈到了很多话题。当时，奥兹谈到文字是怎样成为他写小说的推动剂。

阿摩斯·奥兹，作家：我一直都是以文字为第一位的。

杰弗里·布朗：一直都是这样吗？

阿摩斯·奥兹：我在下笔写一个句子之前会字斟句酌很久的时间。一旦我心里有谱了，文字就开始彼此联系并组成情节了。然后我才可以开始写作。人与人之间的关系是怎样的，这是文学有且唯一一个主题，如果一定要归结一下的话。

杰弗里·布朗：对于以色列这样的国家，其作家们扮演着怎样的角色呢？

阿摩斯·奥兹：抱歉，我不太喜欢“作家的角色”或者“文学的角色”这样的字眼。我认为，正确的说法是“文学的礼物”，而不是“文学的作用”。

杰弗里·布朗：礼物？

阿摩斯·奥兹：没错。因为文学让我们一再审视一些已经司空见惯的事情，以新的角度去看待这些事情。有时候，也能让我们重新思考一些我们确认自己知道或者坚信的事情。

杰弗里·布朗：但对于以色列这样的国家来说，会有什么不同吗？

阿摩斯·奥兹：我认为没有不同。我认为，文学是以人类深切的需要为基础的，这种需要就是听故事和讲故事。不需要有其他的目的。

杰弗里·布朗：在两国方案在外交上提出之前，您就一直赞同这个方案，对吗？那么，两国方案是否已经名存实亡了呢？

阿摩斯·奥兹：我认为没有。我觉得除了两国方案之外，已经没有替代方案了。50年前，我和几位同仁率先推行两国方案。5年在我的生命中是很长的一段时间，但在历史上却是白驹过隙。看吧，这其实很简单，其实就是两个国家同时义正言辞地要求一块小土地的归属权。他们只是不信任彼此，而且两方都缺少有勇气的领导班子。就好像一个病人知道自己不得不做手术，但却想推迟一下，因为做手术很痛苦。但医生们都是懦夫——他们没有勇气告诉患者现在就做，因为早晚都要做。

杰弗里·布朗：您是否还对这个方案寄予希望呢？

阿摩斯·奥兹：当然，因为我认为没有替代方案了。