PBS高端访谈:黑人女权主义者的超级权利（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Questions of race and power are obviously not limited to the movies. In tonight's Brief But Spectacular, we hear from cultural theorist, author and professor Brittney Cooper. She calls on us to look at the past during this Black History Month and recognize change shouldn't always be gradual. Cooper recently came out with a new book, Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower.

BRITTNEY COOPER, Author, Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower: I'm a black feminist, capital B, capital F. I'm unapologetically black, and I'm unapologetically a feminist. And, look, depending on what circles you're in, it's hard to be both those things at the same time. But I think that being both those things is the thing that will save us. If time had a race, it would be white. White people feel like they own time and control history. And there's a way that, even if you go back to the early Western philosophers that everybody loved, my least favorite is Georg Hegel, who said, you know, Africa is no historic part of the world. So, in the 1700s and 1800s, various groups of white European men got together and just decided that Africa didn't matter in the span of world history. I mean, talk about having some cojones. Time has a history, and so do black people. And part of the reason that we have, for instance, Black History Month in this country is because we literally have to make the argument that black people have actually done things that are significant to the creation of the nation-state. And it turns out if we didn't have things like Black History Month, apparently, people wouldn't believe that black people were actually significant historical actors. We keep on relitigating basically the 1860s in this country.

We have racial animus the likes of which we have not seen in my lifetime, a resurgence of law enforcement engaging black folks in ways that are often deadly and often with impunity. White people dictate the pace of social inclusion. And they do so by saying, we will get there. Why are you trying to push us so fast? That kind of pushing back the clock, which is a phrase that we use all the time, is a way in which those in power like to say to those of us who don't have power, we're going to determine not only what you get, but when you get it. And that is the critical difference between young activists who are in the streets saying, change it now, change it today, we don't want your gradualism. They remind me of the debates over slavery in this country and ending slavery. In the 1800s, there were gradualists who said, we want to end slavery, but we want to do it in steps. So, we will free you, but, you know, can you work 10 years? Can we sort of gradually phase you out of slavery? And there were others who said, we're going to pass this amendment and, at that moment, you will be free. And for those of us who continue to struggle with a white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchal power structure, immediate freedom is what we want. Gradualism doesn't serve us. There is a truth-telling that happens at that nexus of blackness and feminism, at that space of having to work twice as hard to get half as far, which is a black proverb, and at that space of knowing that, so often, you can be the dopest chick in the room, and they will give it to the mediocre white man in the room. Putting those things together gives you a clarity and a vision about where we can go if we stop oppressing black folks and women and gender non-conforming folk. And, so, black feminism taught me that, and I think it can teach you that, too. I'm Brittney Cooper, and this is my Brief But Spectacular take on my eloquent rage.

JUDY WOODRUFF: And you can watch additional Brief But Spectacular episodes on our Web site, PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：显然，关于种族和权力的问题不只存在于电影之中。在今晚的《简短而精彩》中，我们邀请到了文化理论学家和教授布里特妮·库珀。她呼吁我们值此黑人历史月之际审视过去，呼吁我们认识到改变不应该总是缓缓而来的。库珀最近出了一本新书《雄辩愤怒：黑人女权主义者的超级权利》。

布里特妮·库珀，《雄辩愤怒：黑人女权主义者的超级权利》作者：我是一名黑人女性，真真正正的黑人女性。但我不为自己是黑人感到抱歉，也不为自己是女性感到抱歉。大家所处的圈子与我不同，一定很难理解既是黑人又是女性是怎样的处境。但我认为黑人女性的身份拯救了我们。如果时间一定要选出一个种族的话，那一定是白人。白人会觉得世界是他们的天下，他们控制着历史。也有可能即便是早期人人爱戴的西方哲学家中，我最不喜欢的格奥尔格·黑格尔，因为大家都知道，他曾说过，非洲不属于世界历史的一部分。因此，在18世纪和19世纪的时候，许多欧洲白人团体涌现，而非洲在世界历史上也无足轻重。但我觉得，各种种族毕竟已经存在。时间造就了历史，那黑人也是有历史的。例如，美国之所有黑人历史月，其部分原因是：无可否认，黑人做了很多对创建美国有重大作用的事情。最后我们发现，如果没有黑人历史月这样的活动，显然很多人都认为黑人对历史有重大的作用。19世纪60年代的时候，黑人持续提起抗议。这个国家的种族仇视达到了史上的最高点，执法人员可以以致命的方式对待黑人，而不受法律责罚。白人号称要秉持社会融入。而他们实现社会融入的方式就是动动嘴皮子而已。为什么大家要将黑人推得这么远？这是在倒退，这个词汇我们已经司空见惯，这是权贵对我们这些没权没势的人的惯用伎俩——我们不仅要决定你能得到什么，还要决定你什么时候才能得到。这跟街头上的年轻活动家有着关键区别，因为后者会高呼立刻就改变，现在就改变，我们不想要所谓的循序渐进。他们让我想起美国关于奴隶制以及取缔奴隶制的争论。19世纪的时候，有一些渐进主义者说：我们想取缔奴隶制，但我们要循序渐进地取缔。所以，我们会给你们自由的，不过你们可以先工作10年再说吗？我们就不能让你们慢慢地摆脱奴隶制吗？还有一些人说：到时候，我们会通过一个修正案，你们就自由了。对于我们之中那些依然在跟白人至上主义者抗争的人，跟资本家和父权权力结构抗争的人来说，立刻得到自由才是我们想要的。我们不吃渐进主义这套。在黑人和女性抗争这件事上有一个真理——事倍功半。这是一句黑人的谚语。等一个黑人明白这一点的时候，他/她才知道自己是这里最傻的人，然后才会去与白人抗争。将这些事情联系在一起，我们就会清楚地看到未来将走向灭亡，除非黑人和女性能得到平等的对待。作为一名黑人女性，我明白了这一点，我希望大家也能从中受益。我是布里特妮·库珀，这是我本期带来的与我新书有关的《简短而精彩》。

朱迪·伍德拉夫：要观看其他期的《简短而精彩》，大家可以登录我们的网站PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief。