PBS高端访谈:特朗普的纳税申报单（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: There is another whistle-blower case that has emerged in recent days. This one involves a career official at the Internal Revenue Service and the president and vice president's tax returns. William Brangham has the story.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Judy, it's not a well-known fact, but the IRS does annual audits of the president's and vice president's tax returns. These audits are supposed to be protected from politics. But now a whistle-blower has come forward alleging that at least one political appointee at Treasury interfered in that process. President Trump has long refused to release any tax returns, and Vice President Pence has also not released any of his recent tax returns. Jeff Stein is part of The Washington Post team that broke this story. And he joins me now. Jeff, welcome back to the NewsHour. As best we know, can you tell us, what is it that this whistle-blower is alleging happened?

JEFF STEIN, The Washington Post: We actually first became aware of this whistle-blower complaint back over the summer, when, as part of his lawsuit against the Trump administration seeking President Trump's tax returns, the House Democrat who is leading that push disclosed that he'd received information that suggested improper interference related to the president or the vice president's tax returns. What we have learned recently and what we published yesterday is that that complaint comes from a senior IRS, a career IRS official and names at least one Treasury official as being implicated in potential interference of the president or vice president's audit of their return. I think it's really clear and we try to stress in the story and I will try to stress here that we do not know what kind of interference this refers to. Is it someone calling and saying, stand down, don't go too hard on the president and his audit or his return? We have no proof of that right now. This could be as simple as an informational call to say, hey, what's the deal with the president or vice president's audit? That said, even that level of communication case between political officials at the Treasury Department and career department at the IRS, who are supposed to be completely walled off from political consideration, according to the former IRS commissioners I have spoken to, according to legal experts, that could be seen as extremely unusual and potentially dangerous to the integrity of the audit process, which has gotten so much attention recently.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Has the Treasury Department responded to this?

JEFF STEIN: Officially, no. The Treasury Department spokesperson could not comment to us. However, we have spoken to administration officials who tried downplaying the complaint and said that it was based on secondhand information and hearsay.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: You spoke to the whistle-blower, him or herself. And it's obvious this is coming forward in the midst of these accusations that the president and his supporters have made about the other whistle-blower with regards to Ukraine, alleging that that whistle-blower and his or her sources are spies or might have committed treason. Did this whistle-blower express to you some concern about coming forward in this environment?

JEFF STEIN: Yes. And that was actually quite striking. He did comment on record to us to say, in this political atmosphere, there's been attacks on whistle-blowers. And he said that people who have been silent about these attacks need, know better and should stand up, and that this, what could discourage or deter people who see wrongdoing in the government from speaking out and identifying and could pose a serious, serious harm and serious challenge to the ability of whistle-blowers to do that.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: All right, Jeff Stein of The Washington Post, thank you very much.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：最近又发生一起与告发有关的案子。这个案子牵涉到美国国内收入署（IRS）的一名官员、总统、副总统这几人的纳税申报单。下面请听威廉·布朗汉姆发回的报道。

威廉·布朗汉姆：朱迪好。有一个事实可能不为人所知——IRS对总统和副总统的纳税申报单做了年度检查。这样的年度检查应该不受政治手段的保护。但现在，有一名告发者站出来说，财政部至少一名政府公务员参涉了这件事。长期以来，特朗普都拒绝公开纳税申报单的内容，而副总统彭斯也从未公开过近期的纳税申报单。杰夫·斯坦来自《华盛顿邮报》，他解析了这件事。今天我们也有幸邀请到了杰夫。杰夫，欢迎来到《新闻一小时》。你可否详细点儿为我们解析——告发者究竟揭露了什么内容？

杰夫·斯坦，《华盛顿邮报》：其实我们大概是夏天的时候就了解到关于告发的事情了，那时候，告发的部分内容是要求特朗普总统提供纳税申报单内容。牵头此事的众议院民主党员公开表示是自己收到了情报，情报内容是总统和副总统的纳税申报单有人做了不正当的干预。根据我们昨天获得的消息，我们进行了相关报道——此次的告发者是IRS的一名高级官员，我们还获得了一份名单，其中，至少有一名财政部官员参涉了总统和副总统纳税申报单的事情中。我觉得有一点和明确，这一点也是我们在报道中强调的。我今天想在这里再次强调一下——我们并不知道这里所说的“牵涉”是指何种牵涉。是有人站出来呼吁说：歇了吧歇了吧，不要把总统逼的太紧了，不要再催纳税申报单或者年检的事情了。我们目前没有切实的消息，不知道这里具体是指什么。这件事可以简单到——有人发来情报说，总统和副总统在这件事情上有什么牵涉吗？话是这么说，但财政部和IRS官员的层面上就告发案进行这样的沟通是不妥当的，毕竟这件事情不能有政界人士插手。我跟IRS的政府官员以及一些法律专家聊过，这样做对审计的公正性构成极大威胁，这种做法不是惯常做法，所以外界极为关注。

威廉·布朗汉姆：财政部是否有回应呢？

杰夫·斯坦：暂时还没有官方回应。财政部发言人对此无可奉告。不过，我们跟一些政府官员聊过，这些政府官员曾试图对这起告发案轻描带写，他们说这起告发案所说的只是二手情报，道听途说罢了。

威廉·布朗汉姆：你跟告发者面对面谈过。显然，这次告发正值其他指控——特朗普及其支持者控诉有关乌克兰的告发案，他们说，乌克兰告发案的告发人及其线人都是特务，或者有叛国嫌疑。告发者是否有跟你提过在这种形势下告发的顾虑呢？

杰夫·斯坦：有的，而且让我大为震惊。告发人确实有跟我们说过，说在当前的政治环境下，告发政客是会受到攻击的。告发人还说，关于告发人会受到的攻击，人们一直都保持着沉默，但人们其实很了解情况，而且应该挺身而出，否则就会熄灭告发者告发政府办事不力的积极性，他们就不愿意说出真相、指出事实了。这会对告发者提出问题造成严重的挑战。

威廉·布朗汉姆：好的，感谢《华盛顿邮报》的杰夫·斯坦为我们带来的资讯。