PBS高端访谈:怀俄明州的枪支博物馆（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Wyoming is the nation's least populous state, but it ranks near the top in per capita gun ownership. It's also home to the nation's most comprehensive collection of historical firearms. Jeffrey Brown recently traveled to the renovated Firearms Museum in Cody. This story is part of our ongoing series on arts and culture, Canvas.

JEFFREY BROWN: There's the old and strange.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY, Curator, Cody Firearms Museum: That is called the duck's foot pistol, but it's basically, it's a volley gun.

JEFFREY BROWN: A volley gun?

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: Yes. So it would all fire at once.

JEFFREY BROWN: The new and controversial:

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: An assault rifle has a definable term.

JEFFREY BROWN: And some 7,000 firearms of all kinds in between. The Cody Firearms Museum was created in the 1970s, mostly with gun enthusiasts in mind.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: This looks at the post-World War II period.

JEFFREY BROWN: But after a brand-new $12 million renovation, says curator Ashley Hlebinsky, it can now tell a broader and necessary story.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: Firearms have been integral to understanding really history, culture, technology and society for centuries. And so, having a Firearms Museum is really a way that you can use those artifacts as a vehicle to talk about other topics.

JEFFREY BROWN: That includes guns as weapons of war, for sports and hunting, as innovative technology.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: Henry Ford visited Winchester right before he built his Highland Park factory in Detroit, and he took what he learned at Winchester and applied that to the assembly line that he's become famous for. But you don't necessarily hear that firearms part of the story. And that's gotten lost, definitely.

JEFFREY BROWN: Housed in the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, the firearms collection is one of five museums of art and history, including the story of Buffalo Bill Cody himself, the legendary soldier and hunter turned showman, who in 1896 helped establish this small town in Northwest Wyoming, a deeply conservative state, where guns have always been part of life. The Buffalo Bill Center asks visitors to check visible firearms.

ALAN SIMPSON, Former U.S. Senator: I don't think there's a guy in this community or a family in this community that doesn't have a gun in their home.

JEFFREY BROWN: That includes former Senator Alan Simpson, who grew up and, now 88, still lives in Cody.

ALAN SIMPSON: There would be no history in America without the gun. I mean, you can gasp, and choke, and fall over on your head if you want to with that statement I just made. But, I mean, without a gun, the pioneers would have had nothing but an axe, and fighting off the elements and indigenous people.

All of that is real. All of it, you can't rewrite history.

JEFFREY BROWN: But I could imagine people saying, OK, that's all true, but a museum to celebrate guns?

ALAN SIMPSON: We don't sell it. We tell the history. We're not in the celebratory thing down here, where we have a big sign, come on in and cherish guns with us. That's bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED). This is the history of America, which is guns.

APRIL JONES, Artist: I was afraid that it was going to glorify firearms.

JEFFREY BROWN: Artist April Jones, who lives and works nearby, is a much newer resident of Cody, one who came with different politics and from a very different place, the San Francisco Bay Area.

APRIL JONES: A lot of my friends back there would be quite offended that there was a museum about guns.

JEFFREY BROWN: But Jones is impressed with the museum's approach.

APRIL JONES: I think that's a nice balance to understand that, OK, you have got your sports shooters on the one hand that are competing in Olympic events for target shooting and kind of stuff, but then you have got people who are really living in turmoil and destruction because of firearms, too. And I think that's more the conversation that our country should be having, is, it's a tool. In what cases can it be used properly? And how can we stop it from being used improperly?

JEFFREY BROWN: There's no denying the fascination many have with guns. Visitors from all over the world, here from the Netherlands, come to try them out at the nearby Cody Firearms Experience. General manager Paul Brock knows it's the movies that often drive people his way.

PAUL BROCK, Cody Firearms Museum: When people say, I don't know what to shoot, we will say, OK, well, let's do, what do you want, Johnny Depp, John Wayne or John Wick?

JEFFREY BROWN: We got to try all three, a 1790s Indian trade musket, an 1873 Colt single-action revolver, and a modern AR-15.

PAUL BROCK: The oldest firearm, you did the best shooting with. So, nice job.

JEFFREY BROWN: I'm an old-fashioned guy, maybe.

PAUL BROCK: Yes, there you go.

JEFFREY BROWN: The only shooting at the Cody Firearms Museum is with simulators to teach safety and illustrate different gun mechanisms. Here, they aim for something else, such as getting definitions right. It says, These terms are used frequently, but rarely in the correct ways.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: Correct.

JEFFREY BROWN: As in, just what is meant by an assault weapon?

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: If you are trying to create legislation for or against firearms, or whether you're trying to regulate these things, you have to be precise in the wording of that legislation. So it's important to have the historical foundation of what those words mean in order to actually make sure you're talking about the right thing that you're trying to do in politics.

JEFFREY BROWN: There's also this, a large mural originally made for the cover of TIME magazine last year showing several hundred people across the great American gun divide. And not every museum visitor loves it.

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: We have had a couple of people on all sides say, this is really divisive. Why would you put this up?

JEFFREY BROWN: And what do you say to them?

ASHLEY HLEBINSKY: It's a very divisive debate. And this actually represents equal footing. And it's OK to love it. It's OK to hate it. We want to encourage people to think really long and hard about firearms to make their own conclusions about firearms. And this is an opportunity in the museum to feel something.

JEFFREY BROWN: For the PBS NewsHour, I'm Jeffrey Brown at the Cody, Wyoming, Firearms Museum.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：怀俄明州是美国人口最少的州，但人均持枪率却是几近全国第一。该州也是美国历史上收集武器种类最全面的州。杰弗里·布朗最近去了科迪经过翻新的枪支博物馆。本期节目是帆布系列关于艺术与文化的部分内容。

杰弗里·布朗：这里有旧版枪支，也有奇奇怪怪的枪支。

艾希莉，馆长，科迪枪支博物馆：这是鸭掌手枪，是一种齐射枪。

杰弗里·布朗：齐射枪。

艾希莉：没错，这种枪可以一次性并发子弹。

杰弗里·布朗：新款且有争议的枪支：

艾希莉：冲锋枪的含义是可界定的。

杰弗里·布朗：其中包含了大概7000种枪支分类。科迪枪支博物馆始创于上世纪70年代，是枪支爱好者建立起来的。

艾希莉：回望二战后的时期。

杰弗里·布朗：馆长艾希莉说，不过，在经历了耗资1200万美元的翻新之后，现在的故事领域更加广泛，不得不介绍的关键内容也越来越多。

艾希莉：枪支是真正了解历史、文化、科技、社会不可或缺的一部分。所以，成立枪支博物馆是一种方式，可以通过这种人工制品来谈及其他的话题。

杰弗里·布朗：包括枪支作为战争、体育、狩猎的武器，作为富有创新性的科技。

艾希莉：亨利·福特在底特律创建高地公园工厂前曾到访温彻斯特，他把自己在温彻斯特所学的内容应用在了生产线上，最终以此而闻名。但是你可能不会听到故事中有关枪支的部分。这部分绝对丢失了。

杰弗里·布朗：位于西部的布法罗比尔中心的枪支馆是艺术和历史上的5家博物馆之一。里面也有水牛比尔本人的故事，他曾是一位传奇士兵和猎人，后来成了表演者。1896年，他助力在怀俄明州西北部创建了这座小镇，这里民风保守，枪支是生活的一部分。该中心会请游客参观可见的枪支。

阿兰·辛普森，美国前参议员：我想，这个社群里的每家每户都有枪。

杰弗里·布朗：其中就包括前参议员阿兰·辛普森，他在这里长大，今年已经88岁的他已经住在科迪。

阿兰·辛普森：没有枪支，美国历史就是不完整的。如果谁不承认我刚才的这番话，一定会呼吸不畅、噎到、摔倒。但我想说的是：如果没有枪支，先驱们就只能用斧子来击退土著人了。这些都是真实存在的，历史不能重写。

杰弗里·布朗：不过，我也能想象到有人会说——好，这是事实我承认，但有必要建造博物馆来庆祝枪支的存在吗？

阿兰·辛普森：博物馆并不贩卖枪支，我们只是为了讲述历史。这里不是为了庆祝，而且我们也有个标识是说——进来跟我们一起欣赏枪支。说庆祝枪支的人说的都是什么鬼话。美国的历史就是枪支构成的。

阿普丽尔·琼斯，艺术家：我担心人们会以枪支为荣。

杰弗里·布朗：艺术家阿普丽尔·琼斯就在这附近工作生活，她刚搬来科迪没多久，他有不同的政治背景，来自一个完全不同的地方——旧金山湾区。

阿普丽尔·琼斯：我在那里的很多朋友对于枪支博物馆的存在都感到很不舒服。

杰弗里·布朗：但琼斯觉得博物馆的初衷很了不起。

阿普丽尔·琼斯：我觉得，这件事需要辩证理解。奥运赛场上有运动健儿就是比拼枪技的，但也有人因为枪支而生活在毁灭中。我觉得这是美国应该多多讨论的事情，枪支是一种工具。枪支如何能恰当使用呢？如果避免不恰当使用枪支呢？

杰弗里·布朗：无可否认，很多人都很喜欢枪支。来自世界各地的游客，比如荷兰游客，会在附近的科迪枪支博物馆感受枪支。总经理保罗·布洛克人们是看了电影才被吸引过来的。

保罗·布洛克，科迪枪支博物馆：当人们说我不知道要射什么的时候，我们会说——OK，那我们来选吧，你想要谁用的那把，约翰·尼德普、约翰·韦恩还是约翰·威克。

杰弗里·布朗：我们3个都要试试，一把是18世纪90年代的印度步枪，一把是1873年柯尔特的单机左轮手枪、现代的AR-15。

保罗·布洛克：这把是最老的款式，你射的却很棒。干得好。

杰弗里·布朗：或许我是个复古的人。

保罗·布洛克：没错，看来你就是了。

杰弗里·布朗：科迪枪支博物馆的唯一一次射击是用模拟器来教大家如何实现安全，同时阐释枪的机理。在这里，他们的目标有所不同——正确理解枪支的作用。上面会写上：这些词条使用频繁，却很少以正确方式使用。

艾希莉：没错。

杰弗里·布朗：比如冲锋枪的概念是什么？

艾希莉：如果一个人要为反对或者支持枪支而立法，或者试着设立什么规范，那么立法的用词要准确。所以很重要的是要懂这些词的历史含义，才能确保所说的是正确的，才能用于政治。

杰弗里·布朗：而且，去年，一开始为《时代》杂志所做的封面也显示出有几百人在枪支方面存在巨大分歧。也不是每一位参观者都喜欢。

艾希莉：支持的反对的都有，分歧很大。你为什么要建这个博物馆呢？

杰弗里·布朗：你跟他们说了什么呢？

艾希莉：这个辩论的分歧很大，每种立场都是平等的。喜欢也好，不喜欢也罢，我们只是希望大家能长久地认真思考枪支，再去下结论。来博物馆也是有所感受的机会。

杰弗里·布朗：感谢收听杰弗里·布朗从怀俄明州科迪枪支博物馆发回的《新闻一小时》。