PBS高端访谈:白宫周边的抗议活动（在线收听）

JUDY WOODRUFF: Our Yamiche Alcindor has beenout reporting around the White House yesterday andtoday, and she joins me now. Hello, Yamiche. I knowyou are just now a few blocks from the White House. Tell us more about what you witnessed yesterdayand what you're learning from your sources abouthow President Trump thinks he's handling all of this.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：我台记者阿尔辛多昨天和今天都在白宫跟进报道，今天的节目让我们与她连线。嗨，阿尔辛多。我知道你现在距离白宫很近。请给我们讲讲你昨天目睹到的情况，以及你从知情人士那里了解到的特朗普认为自己对整件事的处理如何。

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, President Trump is determined to show dominance over theprotests that are gripping this nation, and the president yesterday enacted a surreal sceneoutside the White House. I was standing, listening to the president deliver his Rose Gardenremarks on my cell phone. And I looked up, and there were officers going toward peacefulprotesters. And they used some sort of gas, a chemical component, possibly tear gas, thatstarted my eyes tearing up, that started me choking. And what I saw was protesters running for -- all over the place, trying to get away from law enforcement that was showing an incredibledegree of aggression. The president says that he wants people to understand that they can'tjust be everywhere that they want to be and that he -- and that people should know that thisgovernment is going to be one of law and order. The Park Police say protesters were throwingfrozen water bottles and other objects at police. But I should say, Judy, I did not see that. WhatI saw were peaceful protesters gathering. And, of course, I learned later that the president didthat to clear the streets, so that he could take a walk to St. John's Church. Of course, thechurch -- bishop that oversees that church said that she was outraged that President Trumpdid that and that he used the church as a photo-op. The White House today is saying that it'swrong to call it a photo-op. But, in fact, of course, President Trump did walk to that church toshow a Bible and to take pictures and then walk away. So, the president here showing that he iswilling to move physically law-abiding citizens out of the way in order to take a walk and showthe optics to the nation that he wants to show.

阿尔辛多：是这样的，特朗普总统决心展示他对全国各地所有抗议活动的绝对掌控。昨日，他在白宫外上演了离奇的一幕。我当时正用手机站着听总统的玫瑰园讲话。然后我抬头看到有几名工作人员正朝和平抗议者走去。这几人对抗议者动用了一种化学气体，可能是催泪弹吧。我的眼睛开始冒眼泪，说不出话来。我看到抗议者们到处跑，想要躲开执法人员的猛烈攻势。特朗普总统表示自己希望大家能明白他们不能想去哪儿就去哪儿——且大家应该知道特朗普政府是法治的政府。公园警察表示，抗议者们向警方冻了水的扔瓶子等物体。朱迪，但我得说，我没看到有这样的事情发生。我看到的是：和平抗议者们聚集在一起。当然了，我随后了解到特朗普这样做是为了清理接到，这样他就能走路去圣约翰教堂了。当然了，该教堂的主教说自己很震惊，特朗普竟然做出这样的事情，竟然将教堂作为拍照的地方。白宫今天表示这个说法是错误的。不过，实际上，当然了，特朗普确实有走到那个教堂去，展示了圣经，拍了照，然后离开了。所以，通过此事可以看出特朗普想将遵守法律的公民走开，目的只是为了自己能走路、向全民人表明自己想表明的点。

JUDY WOODRUFF: In fact, we talked to the bishop of the Episcopal Church a short time ago. We're going to be hearing that in a little bit on the NewsHour. But, Yamiche, you have been outthere covering these protests for several days. What are you hearing from the protestersthemselves?

朱迪·伍德拉夫：实际上，不久前，我们跟苏格兰圣公会的主教聊过。我们在《新闻一小时》期间也可能稍微听一下聊天的内容。不过，阿尔辛多，你在那边报道抗议的事情已经有几天了。你有从抗议者那里听到什么吗？

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Well, President Trump has said over and over again that theseprotesters are -- are largely domestic terrorists who don't want to see democracy in America, when, in fact, what I have seen is Americans who are demanding change. These are largelylaw-abiding citizens who say that they want to peacefully protest, but they also want todemand change from their government. I'm thinking of Julien. She was a mother of four whocame out here yesterday and spoke to me and said that she's here because of the lives of yourchildren. She's scared that her children might get killed by the police because they're African-American. Or a young man that I talked to just a few moments ago who brought his son outhere. And he said: The reason why I'm out here is because of the first 30 years of my life andthe next 30 years of my son's life.

阿尔辛多：特朗普总统多次表示，这些抗议者基本都是国内的恐怖分子，他们不想看到美国实现民主，但其实我看到的却是一群想要实现变革的美国人。他们基本都是遵纪守法的好市民，他们说他们想要和平抗议，但他们也希望政府方面能做出改变。我想到了朱利安。她是4个孩子的母亲，她昨天也来到这里了。她跟我说她是为了自己几个孩子的生命才来这里的。她担心自己的孩子会因为自己是非裔美籍人而被警察杀害。我还想到了不久前跟一个年轻人聊过，这个人是带着儿子来的。他说：我来这里是为了我生命的头30年和未来30年我儿子的生活。

JUDY WOODRUFF: And just quickly, Yamiche, the president himself says he wants to seeinjustices corrected. What do you know about specific plans the White House has to addresspolicing and some of these other issues?

朱迪·伍德拉夫：快速问个问题，阿尔辛多。总统说他想看到不公平的现象得到纠正。你是否知道白宫方面有没有什么具体的计划来解决治安的问题以及其他一些问题呢？

YAMICHE ALCINDOR: Right now, the president has not made clear what his plans are to dealwith policing. Instead, today, he signed an executive order on religious freedom. He has not sofar said that -- what he would do to affect policing. Yesterday, in the Rose Garden, he spokefor seven minutes and didn't utter the word policing. What I do know is that there's possibly atask force being formed by the White House that might be headed up by HUD Secretary BenCarson. The other thing I should note is that what's complicating the president's solution ofthis is that there are a lot of African-Americans in this country, including protesters, who toldme that they see the president as racist and don't think that he has the credibility to start aconversation or to enact any sort of legislation that would help the lives of Americans, including black Americans, people of color, and all Americans in this country.

阿尔辛多：目前，特朗普没有明确表示自己有任何应对治安问题的方案。不过，今天，他签署了一份关于宗教自由的总统令。但目前他还没有说过关于治安问题会做些什么。昨天，在玫瑰园里，特朗普讲了几分钟的话，也没提到治安的事情。我现在明确知道的一点是：白宫可能成立一支特别小组，该小组可能由住房和城市发展部部长本·卡森牵头。还有一件事儿我应该讲一下：让特朗普的这个解决方案变得复杂的一个因素是美国有着数量庞大的非裔美籍人，包括一些抗议者。这些人跟我说他们认为特朗普是种族主义者，他们认为特朗普没有信誉，不会开启任何对话，也不会颁布任何法令来助力改善美国人的生活。包括一些黑皮肤的美国人、有色人种乃至所有美国公民。

JUDY WOODRUFF: Sobering. Yamiche Alcindor reporting from just a couple of blocks from theWhite House tonight. Thanks, Yamiche.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：情况真的令人警醒。感谢收听阿尔辛多今晚从白宫附近发回的报道。谢谢你，阿尔辛多。