美国国家公共电台 NPR 特朗普支持者暴力占领国会山（在线收听）

We are continuing to follow the story of today's violent occupation of the U.S. Capitol building by pro-Trump insurrectionists. In Washington, D.C., a curfew has now taken effect from 6 p.m. Eastern tonight to 6 a.m. Thursday morning. We're going to continue updating the show with the latest developments. And joining me now is NPR's Tom Bowman, who I understand is still at the U.S. Capitol.

支持特朗普的反叛分子今天暴力占领了美国国会大厦，现在我们继续关注这起事件。华盛顿特区从美国东部境今晚6点至周四早上6点实施宵禁。下面我们将报道最新进展。NPR新闻的汤姆·鲍曼将和我们连线，据我所知他现在仍在美国国会大厦。

Is that right, Tom?

对吗，汤姆？

TOM BOWMAN, BYLINE: That's right, Ailsa. We're outside of the Capitol. And a line of police with shields has pushed back protesters. There aren't that many protesters here compared to earlier today. I would say several hundred waving American flags, Trump banners. Some of them are heckling the police. But they've been pushed pretty far away from the Capitol grounds.

汤姆·鲍曼连线：没错，艾尔萨。我们现在在国会大厦外面。一队手持盾牌的警察击退了抗议者。相比今天早些时候，抗议者数量有所减少。现场有几百名抗议者挥舞着美国国旗和特朗普旗帜。他们中的一些人在质问警察。但他们已被驱离到离国会大厦很远的地方。

CHANG: OK. So the level of tension has dissipated significantly, would you say?

张：好。紧张程度已经明显消散，你怎么看？

BOWMAN: Oh, absolutely. It is far different from what we saw just a couple of hours ago. We were in the Senate side of the Capitol, and these rioters pushed through. And initially, you know, it was, you know, it was not that bad. It was not violent, but it quickly turned violent. And on the Senate side, they were pushing in a door to the side of the Senate, these two heavy wooden doors. And actually, we could see a number of them get inside the building to be pushed away by police.

鲍曼：哦，没错。这和我们几个小时前看到的情况完全不同。暴徒闯入时，我们在国会大厦参议院一侧。一开始，情况没有那么糟糕。当时没有发生暴力情况，但很快抗议就演变为暴力。他们推开了一扇通往参议院一侧的大门，而参议院的大门是两扇沉重的木门。实际上，我们可以看到很多闯入大楼的人被警察驱离。

Then rocks, bottles cans started to be thrown at the police. The police pushed them out again. There was tear gas by the police. There were paint pellets being shot. They pushed them back pretty hard. At one point, we saw a police officer actually fall into the crowd and, again, more tear gas. So it's a definitely a different scene now. And finally, the police are here. Earlier, we only saw about a dozen D.C. police on the grounds, but that was after everybody knocked fences over and covered the Capitol ground as well as the terrace right above the Senate.

之后，他们开始向警察投掷石块、瓶子和罐子。警察再次将他们赶了出去。警方动用了催泪瓦斯。还发射了彩弹。警察努力驱散这些暴徒。我们看到一名警察掉进了人群中，之后警方发射了更多催泪瓦斯。现在绝对是另一番景象。最后，警察控制住了局势。早些时候，我们在现场只看到了十几名华盛顿警察，但那是因为之前人们将栅栏推倒，遮盖了国会大厦的地面以及参议院正上方的露台。

CHANG: OK. So you're seeing a lot more presence of police now. Are you beginning to see some presence of National Guard?

张：好。你现在在看到有更多警察在守卫。那你有看到国民警卫队介入吗？

BOWMAN: Haven't seen any National Guard. There's D.C. police, police from Prince George's County just outside of Washington. Also, we spoke with an FBI agent that had an armored vest on. He said hundreds of FBI agents from the Washington field office were called out tonight. And I asked him, how could something like this have happened? How could rioters get inside the Capitol itself? He said, that's a really good question.

鲍曼：我没有看见国民警卫队。华盛顿特区和乔治王子郡的警察驻守在华盛顿郊外。我们采访了一名身穿装甲背心的联邦调查局探员。他表示，今晚有数百名来自华盛顿外勤办公室的联邦调查局被召集。我问他，怎么会发生这种事？暴徒怎么会进入国会大厦呢？他说，这是个很好的问题。

CHANG: Well, I'm curious, Tom, because you've been such a longtime Pentagon correspondent. Can you talk about the role of the U.S. military at times like this, including the role of the National Guard, especially given that the 10 living former secretaries of defense had just written an op-ed in The Washington Post saying that they did not wish to see the U.S. military involved in any way in any election disputes?

张：汤姆，我很好奇，你在五角大楼做了这么长时间的记者。你能谈谈美军在这种时候的作用吗，包括国民警卫队的作用，特别是考虑到10位在世的前国防部长刚刚在《华盛顿邮报》发表了一篇评论文章，称他们不希望看到美军以任何方式卷入任何选举争端。

BOWMAN: Not only former defense secretaries but the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, has said publicly the military has no role here. It's really up to local police, to National Guard, if necessary, if things get out of hand. And former Defense Secretary Mark Esper said the very same thing a few months back in July, when there were protests after George Floyd's death. He said, I don't see a role for the active-duty military. He was quite firm on that. And it was at that point that Trump really soured on him and, of course, terminated him in a tweet a few months later. Again, we'll — I mean, I haven't seen any guard here. I've been told they will be coming.

鲍曼：不仅是前国防部长，参谋长联席会议主席马克·米利将军也公开表示，军队在这里没有任何作用。如果事情失控，那要由当地警察负责处理，如果有必要，可以部署国民警卫队。前国防部长马克·埃斯珀几个月前也曾说过同样的话，当时是7月，乔治·弗洛伊德之死引发了抗议活动。他表示，我认为现役军人没有作用。他在这个问题上态度非常坚决。而正是在那一刻，特朗普对他产生嫌恶，当然，几个月后特朗普就在推特上宣布了解除埃斯珀的职务。重申一下，现在我没有看到任何国民警卫队成员。但我听说他们会被部署。

CHANG: OK. We will have to leave it there. Thank you so much.

张：好。我们的连线就到这里。非常谢谢你。

That is NPR's Tom Bowman.

以上是NPR新闻的汤姆·鲍曼带来的报道。