新闻周刊:娜斯鲍姆专访:特朗普的恐惧厌恶策略可以被击败(3)（在线收听）

What is behind the disgust we are seeing toward women today?

我们今天看到的对女性的厌恶背后是什么?

Men are angry at women because they aren’t doing what they are supposed to do, which is support men. They are in the workplace claiming their own rights and often outdoing men. They are daring to bring charges of sexual assault and harassment. They are just not behaving themselves! And so the desire to beat them down for being disgusting becomes powerful.

男性生女性的气是因为她们没有做她们应该做的事，那就是支持男性。女性在工作场所要求自己的权利，而且往往比男性更胜一筹。女性敢于提出性侵犯和性骚扰的指控。女性就是不守规矩! 所以男性想要打败女性欲望就变得很强烈。

But it’s a new era. My own senator, Tammy Duckworth, an Iraq War veteran and amputee, wanted to bring her second child to the floor of the Senate. They haven’t changed the rules to (explicitly) allow breastfeeding on the floor, but that has happened in other countries. In New Zealand, the prime minister delivered a first child and made a big point of breastfeeding.

但这是一个新时代。我的参议员塔米·达克沃斯是一名伊拉克战争老兵，也是一名截肢者，想把她的第二个孩子带到参议院。他们没有改变规定(明确)允许在地板上哺乳，但在其他国家也发生过这种情况。在新西兰，总理生下了第一个孩子，并强调母乳喂养。

There are women all over the country who are doing well, and many, many men who understand this is not “us vs. them” and who have grown up differently, who understand what it is to treat women with respect. There are enough of them that I think the misogynists are a dying breed.

全国各地的女性都做得很好，很多很多男性明白这不是“我们与他们”的问题，他们在成长过程中有所不同，他们明白什么是尊重女性。我认为厌女症患者的数量已经足够多了。

There is a tendency on the left to blame conservatives for spreading the rhetoric of fear.

左翼倾向于指责保守派散布恐惧言论。

Fear requires belief that you will be harmed, and it is easily manipulated by rhetoric. But irresponsible rhetoric is not just on the right—it’s always happening. And there are plenty of responsible conservatives. [In Monarchy of Fear] I contrast Trump not with some Democrats but with George W. Bush, who, after 9/11, was very careful and responsible in his rhetoric. He said we are going to go get the criminals who did this, but we are not going to demonize an entire religion or people. I don’t approve of everything he did, but he was a responsible custodian of public emotion.

恐惧需要相信你会受到伤害，它很容易被修辞所操纵。但是不负责任的言论并不仅仅是右翼的——它总是在发生。还有许多负责任的保守派。(在《恐惧的君主政体》中)我将特朗普与乔治?W?布什进行对比，而不是与一些民主党人，后者在9/11事件后在言辞上非常谨慎和负责。他说，我们要去抓做这件事的罪犯，但我们不会妖魔化整个宗教或人民。虽然我不赞成他做的事，但他是一个负责任的公众情感守护者。

Can you give examples of leaders who have been particularly good at that?

你能举一些在这方面特别擅长的领导者的例子吗?

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt was an amazingly careful, responsible custodian of public emotion. FDR knew the American tendency was to think that when poor people are suffering, it’s their own fault. The attitude of the dominant class was “Oh well, they are lazy slobs who brought the suffering on themselves.” He understood that America needed a new emotional attitude towards the poor, and he set out to show that the poor are people of dignity, worthy of respect. They suffer not through bad behavior or laziness but through some cataclysm not of their own making.

富兰克林·德拉诺·罗斯福总统是一位非常细心、负责任的公众情感守护者。罗斯福知道美国人倾向于认为穷人受苦是他们自己的错。统治阶级的态度是“哦，好吧，他们是懒汉，自食其果。”他明白美国需要对穷人采取一种新的情感态度，他开始表明穷人是有尊严的人，值得尊重。他们遭受的不是不良行为或懒惰，而是一些不是他们自己造成的灾难。

He even employed artists to help communicate this, through his New Deal (programs and projects introduced during the Depression). Dorothea Lange, for example, produced some of the most haunting photographs of American poverty. John Steinbeck was writing in the same vein. This was important.

他甚至雇佣艺术家通过他的新政(大萧条时期推出的项目)来帮助传达这一点。例如，多萝西娅·兰格拍摄了一些最令人难忘的美国贫困照片。约翰·斯坦贝克也以同样的方式写作。这很重要。