PBS高端访谈:对话在当今时代的重要作用（在线收听）

Judy Woodruff: In a world these days of Zoom and FaceTime, conversation might be more critical than ever to find connection. Here is a Brief But Spectacular take from renowned designer Fred Dust on how we can all talk better together.

Fred Dust: I'm talking to you from my kitchen. The reason why is, I think the first technology that stole conversation away from us was television. No offense, "PBS NewsHour." I love you. But the moment that we gave our, like, our dinner over to television, which we did in about the '50s, we started to lose conversation in America, in the world. My mother happened to be a really phenomenal listener. She has just kind of one of those faces. However, my mother had a stroke when I was 24 and wasn't really able to listen as well ever again. When you can lose someone, where she is gone in some capacity, you start realizing your life needs to be really full. And I realized my life had to be full by actually meeting as many people and having as many conversations as I possibly could. I was a gay kid raised in a private school by my father who was a headmaster who wanted the perfect son. So, I had to play soccer and date cheerleaders. And so I was pretty lost into a persona that wasn't me. At the same time, AIDS had hit. So we were seeing basically the genocide of gay men. And I was afraid at that point to kind of come out. But when I finally did, it was ACT UP. It was an activist organization that focused on art, creativity and AIDS that I really ended up working with. Conversations at their best are conversations where people feel like they're safe. And there is a lot that you can design into a conversation that does that. I had somebody hunting our property, and I saw his truck, which had a bunch of stickers of a candidate that I wasn't voting for. And so I just walked down, and I introduced myself. And we just talked for awhile. And I said hey, just FYI, like, if you are hunting, we have a dog. We have kids running around. Just be careful. He is like, no problem. And then I was like, hey, and, also, we love venison, so drop by some venison. So, we didn't even have a conversation about politics. We just had a conversation about him, his son. And that's the beginning of a conversation that we can have for a long period of time. I also have a counterintuitive idea for conversation, which is, when you can't talk to somebody, just make something with them. So, I had a young woman who emailed me recently saying her father is teaching her how to play golf because she doesn't want to talk about politics. I feel like everything in the world is designed. The role of design or creativity is to think very, very carefully about the things that you make. One of the most important things we make is conversation. Conversations fuel change every time you have a conversation. My name is Fred Dust, and this is my Brief But Spectacular take on making conversation.

Judy Woodruff: And you can find all of our Brief But Spectacular segments on our website. That's at PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：在当今这个充斥着缩放和FaceTime的世界里，为了找到联系，对话可能比以往任何时候都更为关键。以下是著名设计师弗雷德·达斯特的一段简短而精彩的视频，讲述我们如何才能更好地交谈。

弗雷德·达斯特：我在厨房跟你说话。原因是，我认为第一个夺走我们谈话的技术是电视。无意冒犯，PBS新闻，我爱你。但是当我们把晚餐送到电视上的那一刻，就像我们在50年代做的那样，我们开始失去在美国和世界上的对话。我母亲碰巧是一个非常出色的听众。她有一张这样的脸。然而，我妈妈在我24岁的时候中风了，再也听不清了。当你失去一个人，她以某种身份消失，你开始意识到你的生活需要充实。我意识到我的生活必须充实，因为我必须尽可能多地与人见面，与人交谈。我是一个同性恋孩子，在一所私立学校长大，父亲是一个校长，他想要一个完美的儿子。所以，我不得不踢足球，和啦啦队队员约会。所以我迷上了一个不是我的角色。与此同时，艾滋病也来袭。所以我们基本上看到了对同性恋的种族灭绝。我害怕在那一刻出来。但当我最终做到的时候，那是装腔作势。这是一个积极的组织，专注于艺术，创造力和艾滋病，我最终与之共事。最好的谈话是人们觉得安全的谈话。在这样的谈话中，你可以设计很多东西。我有人在找我们的财产，我看到他的卡车，上面有一堆我没有投票支持的候选人的标签。所以我就走下来自我介绍。我们聊了一会儿。我说嘿，仅供参考，如果你在打猎，我们有条狗。我们有孩子到处跑。小心点。他就像，没问题。然后我就说，嘿，还有，我们也喜欢鹿肉，所以顺便来点鹿肉。所以，我们甚至没有谈论政治。我们刚刚谈了他，他的儿子。这是我们可以进行很长一段时间的谈话的开始。我还有一个与直觉相反的想法，那就是，当你不能和某人交谈时，就和他们做点什么。所以，我有一个年轻女子，她最近给我发邮件说，她父亲正在教她打高尔夫球，因为她不想谈论政治。我觉得世界上的一切都是设计好的。设计或创意的作用是非常非常仔细地思考你所做的事情。我们做的最重要的事情之一就是交谈。每次谈话都会改变话题。我的名字是弗雷德·达斯特，这是我简短而精彩的谈话。

朱迪·伍德拉夫：你可以在我们的网站上找到我们所有简短但精彩的片段，请登录PBS.org/NewsHour/Brief.