PBS高端访谈:克里斯·克里斯蒂敦促共和党人摒弃选举阴谋（在线收听）

Debate over the future of the Republican Party is under way ahead of the 2022 midterm elections.

在2022年中期选举之前，围绕共和党的未来展开了争论。

And while both parties are formulating their midterm strategies, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie has some advice for his party.

当两党都在制定他们的中期战略时，前新泽西州州长克里斯·克里斯蒂对他的政党有一些建议。

He says it's time to do away with tactics like focusing on grievances and believing in conspiracy theories, strategies that helped to propel former President Donald Trump to the top of Republican Party leadership.

他说，现在是时候摒弃一些策略了，比如专注于抱怨和相信阴谋论，这些策略帮助前总统唐纳德·特朗普成为共和党最高领导人。

Governor Christie's new book is called "Republican Rescue."

克里斯蒂州长的新书名为《拯救共和党》

And I spoke with him a short time ago.

不久前我还和他谈过。

Governor Christie, thank you very much for joining us.

克里斯蒂州长，非常感谢你加入我们。

The book is a prescription for the Republican Party, as you put it, to recapture its glory and win elections again.

正如你所说，这本书是给共和党开的药方，让他们重获荣耀，再次赢得选举。

But this is a moment when the Republican Party looks to be doing well.

但这是共和党看起来做得不错的时刻。

Analysts are saying it is probably going to pick up the House of Representatives next November, pick up seats in the Senate.

分析人士说，明年11月它可能会赢得众议院的席位，在参议院获得席位。

President Biden's poll numbers are down.

拜登总统的支持率下降。

So why, at this moment, are you trying to save the Republican Party？

那么，在这个时候，你为什么要试图拯救共和党呢?

We lost the House of Representatives, the United States Senate and the White House in a two-year span, from 2018 to 2020.

在2018年到2020年的两年时间里，我们失去了众议院、美国参议院和白宫。

It is the only time that has ever happened in our party's history, except for the first time, which was 1930 to 1932 under Herbert Hoover.

这是我们党历史上唯一一次发生这样的事情，除了第一次发生在1930年到1932年赫伯特·胡佛执政期间。

And then the Democrats took the White House for 28 of the next 36 years.

在接下来的36年里，民主党占据了白宫28年。

We're still a year away from this election in 2022.

距离2022年大选还有一年的时间。

And we have to make sure we are laying out a smart, positive vision for the future.

我们必须确保我们为未来规划出一个明智、积极的愿景。

We have got to not be dwelling on the past.

我们不能老是沉溺于过去。

We have got to move forward and lay out an alternative vision to what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are doing in Washington on behalf of the Democrats.

我们必须向前迈进，为乔·拜登和卡玛拉·哈里斯代表民主党在华盛顿所做的事情提出另一种愿景。

And that is not going to change in the next year.

这在明年也不会改变。

And we're not going to win those seats by magic.

我们不可能靠魔法赢得这些席位。

We better have an alternative to put out there, because if you run the last election in the next one, you're bound to lose.

我们最好有别的选择，因为如果你参加下一届的选举，你肯定会输。

You do argue -- in fact, your central point is that Republicans need to let go of this allegiance to former President Trump's argument that he lost the 2020 campaign because there was a lot of fraud and that it was unfair and that he should shall president.

你确实认为——事实上，你的核心观点是，共和党人需要放弃对前总统特朗普的这种忠诚，即他输掉2020年竞选是因为有很多欺诈，这是不公平的，他应该当总统。

You say the party needs to move on.

你说党需要前进。

But, when you look at the polls right now, what is it, 60 percent of Republicans today believe former President Trump.

但是，当你看现在的民意调查，现在有60%的共和党人相信前总统特朗普。

They say they agree that he should have -- be in the White House.

他们说他们同意他应该在白宫。

How do you persuade tens of millions of Republicans that former President Trump is wrong?

你如何说服数千万共和党人，让他们相信前总统特朗普是错的?

I think that you lay out the facts. And that is what we do in the book.

我认为你列出了事实。 这就是我们在书中所做的。

We lay out the facts. And the facts do not support that allegation.

我们列出事实。但事实并不支持这一指控。

And that is why over 60 courts have rejected the argument over the course of time since the election.

这就是为什么自选举以来，超过60家法院否决了这一论点。

But here's the bigger issue, Judy, is that, you know, no political party wins campaigns by talking about yesterday.

但更重要的问题是，朱迪，任何政党都不会靠谈论昨天的事来赢得竞选。

You have to talk about tomorrow.

你得谈谈明天的事。

If Donald Trump wants to talk about those future issues and critiquing the Biden administration and laying out a thoughtful plan for what we do next, he will be a very powerful voice in the debate going forward.

如果唐纳德·特朗普想谈论这些未来的问题，批评拜登政府，并为我们下一步的行动制定一个深思熟虑的计划，他将在未来的辩论中发出非常强有力的声音。

But if we continue to look backwards, that is not what we need to do.

但如果我们继续向后看，这不是我们需要做的。

One question out there, Governor, is, why is Chris Christie the right person to be making this argument?

州长，有一个问题，为什么克里斯·克里斯蒂是提出这个论点的合适人选?

Because, after all, you were one of the first people to endorse former President Trump.

因为，毕竟你是第一批支持前总统特朗普的人之一。

You stuck with him through, what, the 2016 "Access Hollywood" scandal.

2016年《走进好莱坞》丑闻时你一直陪着他。

You were with him even after he was impeached in early 2020.

即使在2020年初他被弹劾后，你还是和他在一起。

You helped him in the debates.

你在辩论中帮助了他。

And yet you are saying you are the person to argue that he's making the wrong argument?

而你却说你是那个要反驳他的论点是错误的人？

Exactly the right person, Judy.

恰好应该是这个人，朱迪。

Look, Trump voters are not going to listen to this argument from someone who was a never-Trumper, who never thought that Donald Trump did anything well.

听着，支持特朗普的人不会听一个从来都不支持特朗普的人的观点，他们从来都不认为唐纳德·特朗普做得好。

I think Donald Trump did a lot of good things for this country on taxes and affordability, on the regulatory state, on conservative justices and judges to our courts, and on trade.

我认为唐纳德·特朗普为这个国家做了很多好事，在税收和负担能力方面，在监管国家方面，在我们法院保守的法官方面，以及在贸易方面。

And so I think there is a lot of good things to talk about.

所以我认为有很多好的方面可以讨论。

And I think we need to give the president, the former president credit, in addition, for Operation Warp Speed.

我觉得我们应该给总统，这位前总统，额外的荣誉，因为曲速行动。

But, you know, I think when someone who has been a biggest supporter of President Trump as I have been says, look, this has to stop,

但我认为，当一个像我一样一直是特朗普总统最大支持者的人说，看，这必须停止，

this grievance politics and looking backwards has to stop, and we have to move forward as a party, so that we can help our country,

这种不满政治和算旧账必须停止，我们必须作为一个政党向前迈进，这样我们才能帮助我们的国家，

I think someone like me has even more credibility saying it than someone who never thought that Donald Trump did anything good.

我觉得像我这样的人说这话比那些从不认为唐纳德·特朗普做了什么好事的人更可信。

I don't buy that. I believe he did a lot good for this country.

我才不信呢。我相信他为这个国家做了很多好事。

But what he is doing right now, the argument that is being made is not good for our party.

但是他现在所做的，所提出的论点对我们政党是不利的。

And, as a result, that is not good for the country.

因此，这对国家不利。