华盛顿邮报 国会山暴动一周年 美国民主濒临奔溃（在线收听）

Where do you think we are when it comes to, say, partisan politics as a result of January 6th?

说到1月6日的党派政治，你认为我们处于什么位置？

Cleve, I think we're in a somewhat perilous place.

克里夫，我觉得我们现在处境有点危险。

We know we're a divided country. We have been for a long time.

我们知道我们是一个有分歧的国家。我们国家这样有很长一段时间了。

I think what we're now worried about is the degree to which those divisions and particularly what's happened to the Republican Party, have put sort of the institutions of democracy at risk.

我认为我们现在担心的是这些分歧的程度，特别是共和党发生的事情，已经把民主制度置于危险之中。

You know, a year ago, ahead of January 6th, we might have thought that we were moving toward calmer times with a new president and vaccines available to deal with COVID and kind of a general desire to lower temperatures.

你知道，一年前，也就是1月6日之前，我们可能认为我们正在走向平静的时代，有了新总统，有了应对新冠的疫苗，有了降低气温的普遍愿望。

And I think if we look back after the last year, we would say that was a complete misunderstanding of what was about to happen.

我认为，如果我们回顾去年，我们会说这完全是对即将发生的事情的误解。

And we've seen so many things this year that have given rise to concerns about the future of our elections and election integrity and the counting of elections

我们今年看到了如此之多的事情，以致于引起了人们对我们选举的未来、选举廉正和选举计票的担忧，

that I think that there are people now talking about the state of democracy in a way they probably never would have thought about a few years ago.

以致于我认为现在有些人正在以一种几年前他们可能永远不会想到的方式谈论民主状况。

I had a conversation recently with a political scientist who said, you know, political scientists are trained to be, in a sense, nonpartisan, as are journalists, but they are also trained to be pro-democracy.

我最近与一位政治学家进行了交谈，她说，你知道，政治学家和记者一样，在某种意义上被培养成无党派的，但他们也被培养成亲民主的。

And she said, when you have to make a choice between being nonpartisan and pro-democracy, you have to be pro-democracy and that's the situation we're in now.

她表示，当你必须在无党派和亲民主之间做出选择时，你必须是亲民主的，这就是我们现在所处的情况。

You read stories by people who are, by far, not alarmist by any means talking about the dangers that could exist in the future.

到目前为止，你读到的故事都不是危言耸听的人在谈论未来可能存在的危险。

And I think that's the real difference between today and, let's say, January 5, 2021.

我认为这就是今天和2021年1月5日之间的真正区别。

Amy, I wonder if you can talk about voting and where voting stands a year out from January 6th.

艾米，你是否能谈谈选举以及从1月6日开始一年的选举情况。

How have the laws changed over the last year?

在过去的一年里，法律发生了怎样的变化？

What do things look like in some of the swing states that we were watching most closely after the election?

选举后我们最密切关注的一些摇摆不定的州的情况如何？

Sure. I actually think it's still an unknown how the laws that were passed in 2021, in the aftermath of the presidential election last year, what effect they will actually have.

好的。我实际上认为，在去年总统选举之后，2021年通过的法律将会产生什么影响，这仍然是个未知数。

In fact, that's one of the great tests that 2022 midterm elections and the 2024 presidential election will provide for us to see.

事实上，这是2022年中期选举和2024年总统选举将为我们提供的巨大考验之一。

You know, there were some pretty expansive new laws passed in really critical swing states -- as you said, Georgia, Iowa, Florida, Arizona, and Wisconsin.

在关键的摇摆州——如你所说，乔治亚州、爱荷华州、佛罗里达州、亚利桑那州和威斯康星州——通过了一些相当广泛的新法律。

And we don't know exactly how they will affect access to the vote.

我们还不清楚他们将如何影响投票渠道。

We know that they were passed in the name of making elections more secure, even though there was no evidence presented that widespread fraud tainted the 2020 election.

我们知道，这些法案是以使选举更安全的名义通过的，尽管没有证据表明普遍存在的舞弊行为玷污了2020年的选举。

So, by some measures, these laws were solutions in search of a problem.

因此，从某种程度上说，这些法律是在寻找问题的解决方案。

But by the same token, some of the provisions, like eliminating drop boxes for absentee ballots or making signature requirements on mail ballots more strict,

但出于同样的原因，一些条款，比如取消缺席选票的投递箱或对邮寄选票的签名要求更加严格，

we don't know yet if those will actually make it harder for people to vote, and we certainly don't know if we're going to be able to measure that

我们还不知道这些条款是否真的会增加人们投票的难度，我们当然也不知道我们是否能够衡量这一点，

because it's very difficult to measure what specific cause prevents someone from voting or allows them, enables them to.

因为很难衡量是什么具体原因阻止或允许某人投票，使他们能够投票。

There's a lot of rhetoric on both sides of the partisan divide on this topic.

在这个话题上，党派分歧的双方都有很多说辞。

And so, unfortunately, the long answer, but the, you know, kind of nonpartisan answer is that we really don't know.

所以，不幸的是，答案很长，但是，你知道，无党派的答案是，我们真的不知道。