美国国家公共电台 NPR--Ukrainians aren't getting U.S. intelligence on Russia fast enough, Sasse says

Ukrainians aren't getting U.S. intelligence on Russia fast enough, Sasse says

Transcript¹

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Republican Sen. Ben Sasse of Nebraska about the U.S. response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. He is a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Rarely in history has the world shown such interest in the Moscow financial markets as they have shown this week. The world is watching to see how devastating² Western sanctions may be even as they watch Russia move more military hardware to the war in Ukraine. Senator Ben Sasse joins us next. He's a Republican of Nebraska. And he's on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, welcome back.

BEN SASSE: Steve, thanks for the invite.

INSKEEP: I'll remind people you can't divulge³ what they've been telling you in the intelligence committee briefings or in a full Senate briefing last evening. But you can, of course, comment on the news coverage⁴ that we've all seen. You last night in a speech celebrated⁵ the Ukrainians' defiance⁶ - six days now. But do you think they can win?

SASSE: Well, they've changed the world already. This invasion is not going according to Putin's plan at all. He expected the Ukrainians would roll over. He expected they would've just accepted defeat. But all over the country, you see brave men and women fighting back. You're right. They're outgunned. They're outmanned. But they're making Putin pay a bloody⁷ price for every inch of soil that he's forcing his army to take. It's perfectly⁸ clear who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. That's going to change a whole bunch of things in the world in the next month and year. But you're right - at a military level, they've got a big, big battle in front of them.

INSKEEP: I saw a newspaper report overnight suggesting that maybe they had - the Ukrainians had a week of ammunition⁹ left. Is the United States getting them enough and everything that they need?

SASSE: They don't have enough. And, no, we're not getting them enough. I applaud pieces of how the administration has responded. But I've been pushing hard that they need to be sending more actionable intelligence in real-time to the Ukrainians because we're not moving fast enough. Knowing where a Russian tank was 10 hours ago isn't very helpful to a Ukrainian who's, you know, fighting to defend his or her family and homeland.

INSKEEP: Is that not happening now? I kind of imagined the United States would be sending them intelligence. Is it not getting to them very quickly?

SASSE: We are sending them intelligence. But we have lawyers delaying the process at way, way too many steps. And we shouldn't be letting technicalities get in the way of helping¹⁰ the Ukrainians fight back. Putin threatens that real-time, actionable intelligence is tantamount to being engaged in the war on their soil. That's obviously not true. So I applaud many pieces of what's happening in the intelligence community. But we need the Ukrainians to be as deadly as possible as fast as possible so they can protect as many civilians¹² as possible...

INSKEEP: Is that...

SASSE: Putin is targeting civilian¹¹ populations. And we need to work faster.

INSKEEP: Is that what the lawyers are doing, trying to make sure the United States does not go over some legal tripwire into being actively¹³ involved in a war?

SASSE: There are a bunch of technicalities about intelligence in general versus¹⁴ targeting information in particular. And we should be giving the Ukrainians all the intelligence we can possibly get them as fast as possible. It's way too lawyerly. We have a very limited window here. If Zelenskyy’s government falls, it's going to be much, much harder to share intelligence with any confidence with partners that are invading - you know, waging some sort of insurgency¹⁵ war, as opposed to having an actual military right now. So we need to do it fast. We need to do it now.

INSKEEP: Senator, last week you said you wanted more sanctions. Then over the weekend, Europe and the United States added a cascade¹⁶ of sanctions. Is this enough?

SASSE: I definitely applaud the European and American conversation over this weekend. We needed the financial sector¹⁷ sanctions. It's kind of amazing to see Zelenskyy’s heroism¹⁸ change the trajectory¹⁹ of Switzerland, change the path of Sweden and Finland, change Germany. Many of us on the intelligence committee were in Munich last week. And where the Germans were a week ago in these conversations versus where they are today is great, great change. But we need to be sure that every single oligarch crony and their girlfriends and their children are all putting back pressure on the oligarchs and the way they've stolen from the Russian people, so that Putin understands that he's losing support. Obviously, this is a long, long battle. And there's no, you know, room for naive²⁰ optimism. But these sanctions have had real consequences. And Putin is feeling a kind of pressure that he didn't expect.

INSKEEP: And the president of Russia has responded by putting nuclear forces on one higher degree of alert. Of course, it's hard to imagine starting a nuclear war when it could destroy your own country. But Putin is considered less predictable than he was just a few weeks ago. Is there a real danger of a Russian leader, backed into a corner by sanctions and other things, who does something crazy?

SASSE: Well, let's be clear that Vladimir Putin is evil, and he bears sole responsibility for what's happened here. There's not one praiseworthy thing to say about the man. He's a tyrant²¹ with the blood of innocents on his hands. But people are going to debate for a long time whether he's genius or mad. But the thing we should lead with is that the guy is evil. But his - I'll only comment on the public piece here. But the claim that things were on alert is a little more press release than reality. So there was less substance happening underneath²².

But we need to remember that weakness has emboldened²³ Putin. There's all sorts of very important, precautionary conversations and steps that we need to take about the fact that the guy has the largest nuclear arsenal²⁴ we're ever going to stand up against. But weakness has emboldened him. He took part of Georgia in 2008, paid no price. He took Crimea in 2014, paid no price. He shot down a civilian airliner²⁵ in 2014, no price. He meddled²⁶ in our election, no price. He poisoned his political rivals. We have to tell the truth about this guy and not be intimidated²⁷ by press release threats.

INSKEEP: Ben Sasse, Republican senator of Nebraska. Always a pleasure - thank you, sir.

SASSE: Thanks, Steve.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 devastating   

adj.毁灭性的，令人震惊的，强有力的

参考例句：

• It is the most devastating storm in 20 years.这是20年来破坏性最大的风暴。
• Affairs do have a devastating effect on marriages.婚外情确实会对婚姻造成毁灭性的影响。

3 divulge   

v.泄漏(秘密等)；宣布，公布

参考例句：

• They refused to divulge where they had hidden the money.他们拒绝说出他们把钱藏在什么地方。
• He swore never to divulge the secret.他立誓决不泄露秘密。

4 coverage   

n.报导，保险范围，保险额，范围，覆盖

参考例句：

• There's little coverage of foreign news in the newspaper.报纸上几乎没有国外新闻报道。
• This is an insurance policy with extensive coverage.这是一项承保范围广泛的保险。

5 celebrated   

adj.有名的，声誉卓著的

参考例句：

• He was soon one of the most celebrated young painters in England.不久他就成了英格兰最负盛名的年轻画家之一。
• The celebrated violinist was mobbed by the audience.观众团团围住了这位著名的小提琴演奏家。

6 defiance   

n.挑战，挑衅，蔑视，违抗

参考例句：

• He climbed the ladder in defiance of the warning.他无视警告爬上了那架梯子。
• He slammed the door in a spirit of defiance.他以挑衅性的态度把门砰地一下关上。

7 bloody   

adj.非常的的；流血的；残忍的；adv.很；vt.血染

参考例句：

• He got a bloody nose in the fight.他在打斗中被打得鼻子流血。
• He is a bloody fool.他是一个十足的笨蛋。

8 perfectly   

adv.完美地，无可非议地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The witnesses were each perfectly certain of what they said.证人们个个对自己所说的话十分肯定。
• Everything that we're doing is all perfectly above board.我们做的每件事情都是光明正大的。

9 ammunition   

n.军火，弹药

参考例句：

• A few of the jeeps had run out of ammunition.几辆吉普车上的弹药已经用光了。
• They have expended all their ammunition.他们把弹药用光。

10 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

11 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

12 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

13 actively   

adv.积极地，勤奋地

参考例句：

• During this period all the students were actively participating.在这节课中所有的学生都积极参加。
• We are actively intervening to settle a quarrel.我们正在积极调解争执。

14 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

15 insurgency   

n.起义；暴动；叛变

参考例句：

• And as in China, unrest and even insurgency are widespread. 而在中国，动乱甚至暴乱都普遍存在。 来自互联网
• Dr Zyphur is part an insurgency against this idea. 塞弗博士是这一观点逆流的一部分。 来自互联网

16 cascade   

n.小瀑布，喷流；层叠；vi.成瀑布落下

参考例句：

• She watched the magnificent waterfall cascade down the mountainside.她看着壮观的瀑布从山坡上倾泻而下。
• Her hair fell over her shoulders in a cascade of curls.她的卷发像瀑布一样垂在肩上。

17 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

18 heroism   

n.大无畏精神，英勇

参考例句：

• He received a medal for his heroism.他由于英勇而获得一枚奖章。
• Stories of his heroism resounded through the country.他的英雄故事传遍全国。

19 trajectory   

n.弹道，轨道

参考例句：

• It is not difficult to sketch the subsequent trajectory.很容易描绘出它们最终的轨迹。
• The path followed by a projectile is called its trajectory.抛物体所循的路径称为它的轨道。

20 naive   

adj.幼稚的，轻信的；天真的

参考例句：

• It's naive of you to believe he'll do what he says.相信他会言行一致，你未免太单纯了。
• Don't be naive.The matter is not so simple.你别傻乎乎的。事情没有那么简单。

21 tyrant   

n.暴君，专制的君主，残暴的人

参考例句：

• The country was ruled by a despotic tyrant.该国处在一个专制暴君的统治之下。
• The tyrant was deaf to the entreaties of the slaves.暴君听不到奴隶们的哀鸣。

22 underneath   

adj.在...下面，在...底下；adv.在下面

参考例句：

• Working underneath the car is always a messy job.在汽车底下工作是件脏活。
• She wore a coat with a dress underneath.她穿着一件大衣，里面套着一条连衣裙。

23 emboldened   

v.鼓励，使有胆量( embolden的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine, he went over to introduce himself to her. 他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• His success emboldened him to expand his business. 他有了成就因而激发他进一步扩展业务。 来自《简明英汉词典》

24 arsenal   

n.兵工厂，军械库

参考例句：

• Even the workers at the arsenal have got a secret organization.兵工厂工人暗中也有组织。
• We must be the great arsenal of democracy.我们必须成为民主的大军火库。

25 airliner   

n.客机，班机

参考例句：

• The pilot landed the airliner safely.驾驶员使客机安全着陆。
• The passengers were shepherded across the tarmac to the airliner.旅客们被引导走过跑道去上飞机。

26 meddled   

v.干涉，干预（他人事务）( meddle的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Someone has meddled with the photographs I laid out so carefully. 有人把我精心布置的照片弄乱了。 来自辞典例句
• The gifts of charity meddled with a man's private affair. 慈善团体的帮助实际上是干涉私人的事务。 来自互联网

27 intimidated   

v.恐吓；威胁adj.害怕的；受到威胁的

参考例句：

• We try to make sure children don't feel intimidated on their first day at school. 我们努力确保孩子们在上学的第一天不胆怯。
• The thief intimidated the boy into not telling the police. 这个贼恫吓那男孩使他不敢向警察报告。 来自《简明英汉词典》