Jan. 6 panel's evidence suggests Trump broke laws trying to overturn the election

Jan. 6 panel's evidence suggests Trump¹ broke laws trying to overturn the election

Transcript²

NPR's A Martinez talks to Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff of California, a member of the committee, about the panel's 221-page court filing, and where the investigation³ is headed from here.

A MARTINEZ, HOST:

A 221-page court filing lays claim that there is evidence that former President Donald Trump broke the law in a move to overturn the 2020 election. This is thought to be an explosive, revelatory moment for the Democratic-led House select committee investigating the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol. And it's giving us a look into where this investigation is possibly heading. Joining us now is a member of that committee, Democratic congressman⁴ from California Adam Schiff. Congressman, welcome.

ADAM SCHIFF: Thank you. It's good to be with you.

MARTINEZ: Oh. Some of this new information centers on a man named John Eastman, a lawyer who shared a memo⁵ that attempted to tell how then-Vice⁶ President Mike Pence could reject Joe Biden's win as he presided over the counting of the electoral votes. Why is this necessary? Why is he necessary to the committee right now?

SCHIFF: Well, he has very relevant evidence. He was part of this effort to overturn the election by providing these bogus legal arguments to the president that he could use to urge the vice president to ignore his constitutional duties and responsibilities, and simply throw out the Electoral College votes of states that he didn't like the results of. And more than that, Eastman was involved at that rally in preparation for the 6th. And he's a key witness. But he is attempting to hide behind, you know, a series of privileges and asserts - we think falsely - that he had an attorney-client relationship with the president, which prevents the committee from getting documents.

MARTINEZ: Now, of course, this is not a criminal probe. That's outside of your committee's jurisdiction⁷. It'll be up to the Department of Justice to take any next steps. But do you think this court filing, if the judge sides with you, ramps⁸ up the pressure on Merrick Garland to maybe give a closer look to the claims that the former president did, indeed, commit a crime?

SCHIFF: Well, we believe, first of all, that he didn't have an attorney-client relationship with Donald Trump and that even if he had one, he waived⁹ it by publicly discussing the contents of their strategy. But most significantly - and the judge inquired about this - we believe the crime-fraud exception applies because there are any number of criminal statutes¹⁰ involved here. It's a crime to obstruct¹¹, corruptly¹² obstruct, an official proceeding¹³. We think that's what happened in these efforts to stop the joint¹⁴ session from certifying¹⁵ the results of the election. It's a crime to conspire¹⁶ to defraud¹⁷ the people of the United States. And there's also common law fraud implicated¹⁸ here. And so you're right, this is not a criminal proceeding. But nonetheless, it's significant. The judge asked us to brief this issue of whether the crime-fraud exception applies. We believe there's a good faith basis to conclude that it does.

MARTINEZ: So you think Merrick Garland will, then, give it a closer look?

SCHIFF: You know, it doesn't have a formal impact on the Justice Department. And frankly¹⁹, the Justice Department needs to be investigating any credible²⁰ issues of criminality on the part of the former president or anyone else, for that matter, equally under the law. So the Justice Department, in my view, shouldn't be waiting for court filings by the committee, shouldn't be waiting for our final report. The Justice Department should be investigating any potential criminal activity just as it would with any other American.

MARTINEZ: If the judge, though, rules against the committee on this, Congressman, does this maybe signal that, perhaps, no crime was committed by the former president and make this direction for the investigation a moot²¹ point?

SCHIFF: No. I mean, this is a narrow question of whether the crime-fraud exception applies to these particular communications. And the judge will review, in-camera, that is - will review privately²² what these communications have to say with an eye to whether they are evidence of a crime or fraud. That doesn't mean that there isn't another body of evidence, having nothing to do with these communications, that the Justice Department may conclude is evidence of crime. So no, it doesn't have that effect. But, you know, it certainly would be significant if the judge concludes that these communications alone are evidence of a crime or fraud.

MARTINEZ: That is Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff from California. Congressman, thank you very much.

SCHIFF: You bet. Thank you.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

4 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

5 memo   

n.照会，备忘录；便笺；通知书；规章

参考例句：

• Do you want me to send the memo out?您要我把这份备忘录分发出去吗？
• Can you type a memo for me?您能帮我打一份备忘录吗？

6 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

7 jurisdiction   

n.司法权，审判权，管辖权，控制权

参考例句：

• It doesn't lie within my jurisdiction to set you free.我无权将你释放。
• Changzhou is under the jurisdiction of Jiangsu Province.常州隶属江苏省。

8 ramps   

resources allocation and multiproject scheduling 资源分配和多项目的行程安排

参考例句：

• Ramps should be provided for wheelchair users. 应该给轮椅使用者提供坡道。
• He has the upper floor and ramps are fitted everywhere for his convenience. 他住在上面一层，为了他的方便着想，到处设有坡道。

9 waived   

v.宣布放弃( waive的过去式和过去分词 )；搁置；推迟；放弃（权利、要求等）

参考例句：

• He has waived all claim to the money. 他放弃了索取这笔钱的权利。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• I waived the discourse, and began to talk of my business. 我撇开了这个话题，开始讲我的事情。 来自辞典例句

10 statutes   

成文法( statute的名词复数 )； 法令； 法规； 章程

参考例句：

• The numerous existing statutes are complicated and poorly coordinated. 目前繁多的法令既十分复杂又缺乏快调。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Each agency is also restricted by the particular statutes governing its activities. 各个机构的行为也受具体法令限制。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

11 obstruct   

v.阻隔，阻塞(道路、通道等)；n.阻碍物，障碍物

参考例句：

• He became still more dissatisfied with it and secretly did everything in his power to obstruct it.他对此更不满意，尽在暗里使绊子。
• The fallen trees obstruct the road.倒下的树将路堵住了。

12 corruptly   

腐败（堕落）地，可被收买的

参考例句：

• Ah sinful nation a people a seed of evil-doers, children that deal corruptly! 这作恶犯罪的国家，这邪恶败坏的人民，你们要遭殃了！
• Alas, sinful nation, People weighed down with iniquity, Offspring of evildoers, Sons who act corruptly! 犯罪的国民，担着罪孽的百姓，行恶的种类，败坏的儿女。

13 proceeding   

n.行动，进行，(pl.)会议录，学报

参考例句：

• This train is now proceeding from Paris to London.这次列车从巴黎开往伦敦。
• The work is proceeding briskly.工作很有生气地进展着。

14 joint   

adj.联合的，共同的；n.关节，接合处；v.连接，贴合

参考例句：

• I had a bad fall,which put my shoulder out of joint.我重重地摔了一跤，肩膀脫臼了。
• We wrote a letter in joint names.我们联名写了封信。

15 certifying   

（尤指书面）证明( certify的现在分词 )； 发证书给…； 证明（某人）患有精神病； 颁发（或授予）专业合格证书

参考例句：

• Signed Commercial in quintuplicate, certifying merchandise to be of Chinese origin. 签署商业发票一式五份，证明产品的原产地为中国。
• Other documents certifying the truthfulness of the contents of the advertisements. （三）确认广告内容真实性的其他证明文件。

16 conspire   

v.密谋，（事件等）巧合，共同导致

参考例句：

• They'd conspired to overthrow the government.他们曾经密谋推翻政府。
• History and geography have conspired to bring Greece to a moment of decision.历史和地理因素共同将希腊推至作出抉择的紧要关头。

17 defraud   

vt.欺骗，欺诈

参考例句：

• He passed himself off as the managing director to defraud the bank.他假冒总经理的名义诈骗银行。
• He is implicated in the scheme to defraud the government.他卷入了这起欺骗政府的阴谋。

18 implicated   

adj.密切关联的；牵涉其中的

参考例句：

• These groups are very strongly implicated in the violence. 这些组织与这起暴力事件有着极大的关联。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Having the stolen goods in his possession implicated him in the robbery. 因藏有赃物使他涉有偷盗的嫌疑。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

19 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

20 credible   

adj.可信任的，可靠的

参考例句：

• The news report is hardly credible.这则新闻报道令人难以置信。
• Is there a credible alternative to the nuclear deterrent?是否有可以取代核威慑力量的可靠办法？

21 moot   

v.提出；adj.未决议的；n.大会；辩论会

参考例句：

• The question mooted in the board meeting is still a moot point.那个在董事会上提出讨论的问题仍未决的。
• The oil versus nuclear equation is largely moot.石油和核能之间的关系还很有争议。

22 privately   

adv.以私人的身份，悄悄地，私下地

参考例句：

• Some ministers admit privately that unemployment could continue to rise.一些部长私下承认失业率可能继续升高。
• The man privately admits that his motive is profits.那人私下承认他的动机是为了牟利。