Foreign policy experts are calling for a limited no-fly zone

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Evelyn Farkas, former deputy assistant secretary of defense¹ for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia, who is among those calling for a limited no-fly zone.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

The world is strong enough to close our skies. That is the plea from Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Russia continues to bombard his country, and he wants the international community to establish a no-fly zone to protect citizens. But the U.S. and allies are walking a fine line to support Ukraine without getting dragged into a direct war with Russia. And the Biden administration says a no-fly zone is a step too far. Here's Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

ANTONY BLINKEN: The only way to actually implement² something like a no-fly zone is to send NATO planes into Ukrainian airspace and to shoot down Russian planes, and that could lead to a full-fledged war in Europe. President Biden has been clear that we are not going to get into a war with Russia.

MARTIN: More than two dozen foreign policy experts have signed a letter to the Biden administration calling for a so-called limited no-fly zone over Ukraine. Joining me now to talk about the proposal is one of the people who signed the letter, Evelyn Farkas. She was the former deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia in the Obama administration.

Evelyn, thanks for being here.

EVELYN FARKAS: Thanks for having me, Rachel.

MARTIN: What would a limited no-fly zone look like in Ukraine?

FARKAS: Well, the idea here is to provide protection for humanitarian³ corridors that appear to be agreed at various points between Russia and Ukraine or between Russia and the international community. And as we know from our experience, sadly, watching how the Russians fight, starting in Chechnya in 1999, when Vladimir Putin came to power and more recently in Syria, the Russians will agree to a humanitarian corridor, and then they will actually bomb the civilians⁴ as they try to use that humanitarian corridor. It's incredibly cynical⁵. It's, of course, a war crime. And so it backfires. If we want to let these starving - increasingly starving and desperate civilians in Ukraine live, we have to provide some kind of enforcement of any corridors that we agree to because otherwise we're just setting the people up for basically being picked off by artillery⁶ and aircraft from the sky.

MARTIN: And so this is a, quote, "limited" no-fly zone suggestion as opposed to a broader no-fly zone because you would direct this just to protect the humanitarian corridors. But do you have any reason to believe that Russia would abide⁷ by even a limited no-fly zone?

FARKAS: Right. I mean, that is, of course, the risk - that they wouldn't abide by it. And, of course, there is a risk to NATO pilots if they go and enforce it. The idea here is that there would be less of a likelihood that they would challenge it because they have agreed to the corridor itself, and they would have to agree to the no-fly zone as well. But I have to agree that it is difficult because, again, the Russians are not to be trusted. But if we want to do something to try to save lives, it might be worth the cost. And I don't believe that Vladimir Putin at this point in time wants a war with NATO, so that's another consideration. Turkey shot down a Russian aircraft also in Syria in 2015. It didn't lead to war between NATO and Russia. Of course, it was a completely different situation. But all these things need to be weighed.

And I think fundamentally what I want to say here and what my colleagues and I who signed the letter want to say is don't take anything off the table. Things are changing every day on the ground. We are going to be seeing people increasingly desperate. And we need to be creative and open to taking some risk to save lives.

MARTIN: So Russian President Putin has said explicitly⁸ countries involved in imposing⁹ a no-fly zone, limited or otherwise, would be considered participants in a military conflict. Are you saying then that the U.S. and NATO should be willing to just take that risk of even provoking a direct fight with a nuclear-armed Russia?

FARKAS: Well, I don't think we should try to provoke any kind of conflict with a nuclear-armed Russia. I don't think, though, that Vladimir Putin has the right to decide what is war and what is not. He's already declared our economic sanctions a war against Russia by the West and its allies outside of the West, so Japan, et cetera. So I think he throws these things around to try to deter¹⁰ us. And I think that's - again, the most important point here is let's not take anything off the table. And let's not tell Vladimir Putin what we won't do. Let's talk about what we might do. And let's be creative behind the scenes. And the answer may in the end not be a no-fly zone. It may be providing fighter aircraft, which apparently¹¹ is also bogged¹² down in international discussions.

MARTIN: Right.

FARKAS: But we need to help protect those people.

MARTIN: I want to ask about that because Ukrainians have requested fighter jets from the West. This is very complicated. At first, Poland said that they'd do it. They'd give their fighter jets to Ukraine. But then in this, like, surprise twist, they caught everyone off guard and saying instead they would send the planes to the U.S. airbase in Germany, and NATO would have to take responsibility for giving the planes to Ukraine. The Pentagon then said this plan is untenable. Do you think it's a mistake to turn down the Polish offer?

FARKAS: Well, I don't know what the background here of all the negotiations¹³ is. It's hard to judge from the outside. But clearly something needs to be done, and the Poles were trying to push our government to do something by making this public when clearly the United States was backing away from the arrangement. I think there's a little - likely there's a little too much lawyering going on. And, again, we are second-guessing ourselves with regard to the risk that we might be able to take because of Vladimir Putin's bellicose¹⁴ statements. But I think if we want to try to save lives, we need to be doing more to help the Ukrainians. And so I'm hopeful that the vice¹⁵ president may be able to unlock some kind of arrangement that will reduce the risk and, again, do something to protect innocent civilians.

MARTIN: You spent years analyzing¹⁶ Putin's threat level. How far do you think he's willing to go?

FARKAS: Well, unfortunately very far - but I don't really know how else to get him to back down, except to continue pressing him economically, diplomatically and militarily.

MARTIN: Evelyn Farkas is the former deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia. She served in the Obama administration. Thank you so much for talking with us this morning.

FARKAS: Thanks, Rachel.

1 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

2 implement   

n.(pl.)工具，器具；vt.实行，实施，执行

参考例句：

• Don't undertake a project unless you can implement it.不要承担一项计划，除非你能完成这项计划。
• The best implement for digging a garden is a spade.在花园里挖土的最好工具是铁锹。

3 humanitarian   

n.人道主义者，博爱者，基督凡人论者

参考例句：

• She has many humanitarian interests and contributes a lot to them.她拥有很多慈善事业，并作了很大的贡献。
• The British government has now suspended humanitarian aid to the area.英国政府现已暂停对这一地区的人道主义援助。

4 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

5 cynical   

adj.(对人性或动机)怀疑的，不信世道向善的

参考例句：

• The enormous difficulty makes him cynical about the feasibility of the idea.由于困难很大，他对这个主意是否可行持怀疑态度。
• He was cynical that any good could come of democracy.他不相信民主会带来什么好处。

6 artillery   

n.(军)火炮，大炮；炮兵(部队)

参考例句：

• This is a heavy artillery piece.这是一门重炮。
• The artillery has more firepower than the infantry.炮兵火力比步兵大。

7 abide   

vi.遵守；坚持；vt.忍受

参考例句：

• You must abide by the results of your mistakes.你必须承担你的错误所造成的后果。
• If you join the club,you have to abide by its rules.如果你参加俱乐部，你就得遵守它的规章。

8 explicitly   

ad.明确地，显然地

参考例句：

• The plan does not explicitly endorse the private ownership of land. 该计划没有明确地支持土地私有制。
• SARA amended section 113 to provide explicitly for a right to contribution. 《最高基金修正与再授权法案》修正了第123条，清楚地规定了分配权。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

9 imposing   

adj.使人难忘的，壮丽的，堂皇的，雄伟的

参考例句：

• The fortress is an imposing building.这座城堡是一座宏伟的建筑。
• He has lost his imposing appearance.他已失去堂堂仪表。

10 deter   

vt.阻止，使不敢，吓住

参考例句：

• Failure did not deter us from trying it again.失败并没有能阻挡我们再次进行试验。
• Dogs can deter unwelcome intruders.狗能够阻拦不受欢迎的闯入者。

11 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

12 bogged   

adj.陷于泥沼的v.（使）陷入泥沼， （使）陷入困境( bog的过去式和过去分词 )；妨碍，阻碍

参考例句：

• The professor bogged down in the middle of his speech. 教授的演讲只说了一半便讲不下去了。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• The tractor is bogged down in the mud. 拖拉机陷入了泥沼。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

14 bellicose   

adj.好战的；好争吵的

参考例句：

• He expressed alarm about the government's increasingly bellicose statements.他对政府越来越具挑衅性的声明表示担忧。
• Some irresponsible politicians made a bellicose remarks.一些不负责任的政客说出一些好战的话语。

15 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

16 analyzing   

v.分析；分析( analyze的现在分词 )；分解；解释；对…进行心理分析n.分析

参考例句：

• Analyzing the date of some socialist countries presents even greater problem s. 分析某些社会主义国家的统计数据，暴露出的问题甚至更大。 来自辞典例句
• He undoubtedly was not far off the mark in analyzing its predictions. 当然，他对其预测所作的分析倒也八九不离十。 来自辞典例句