美国国家公共电台 NPR--Red flag laws, not gun control, are the way to stop mass shootings, proponent says

Red flag laws, not gun control, are the way to stop mass shootings, proponent¹ says

Transcript²

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to David French, senior editor of The Dispatch, about the Second Amendment³ and calls for red flag laws, following mass shootings in Buffalo⁴, N.Y., and Uvalde, Texas.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

How does a free society balance a constitutional right to bear arms with the rights of its citizens to feel safe from gun violence? Some progressives are calling for a nationwide ban on assault weapons following the most recent mass shootings in Buffalo, N.Y. and Uvalde, Texas. Others believe red flag laws offer a better solution. David French is among them. He's a senior editor of The Dispatch. He wrote an essay titled with a directive, quote, "pass and enforce red flag laws now."

DAVID FRENCH: Red flag laws are laws that allow a person - such as a family member, a school official, an employer a police officer - to go into court and secure an order from a court requiring the police to seize guns from someone who's demonstrated that they're a threat to themselves or others. And the reason why this law is very important is because if you look at mass shootings as a distinct class and a distinct type of crime, you'll notice a few things. One, vast majority of mass shooters obtain their guns legally. No. 2, vast majority of mass shooters use handguns instead of these so-called assault rifle-type weapons or assault weapons. But a majority of mass shooters actually leak or broadcast or advertise their intention in some way to commit murder. And so red flag laws are designed to deal with this situation where someone is sort of radiating this threat to the rest of the community.

MARTIN: And to be clear, there's nothing in the Second Amendment that would prevent states from passing these laws, correct?

FRENCH: No, because what red flag laws do is they say, your right to keep and bear arms is contingent⁵ upon exercising a degree of responsibility.

MARTIN: Then what's the resistance, especially from red states?

FRENCH: The resistance has been this sort of idea that they could be subject to abuse. In other words, a vindictive⁶ person could see on social media that someone has posted that they bought a gun and try to get that gun seized without any other evidence of threat, or that they could be used - wielded⁷ as weapons in sort of domestic disputes. And then, also, there have been due process objections raised. But the due process objection here, I think, is dealt with by the precedent⁸ of domestic violence restraining orders. This is not something that courts are unaccustomed to. It's the idea of dealing⁹ with somebody who is demonstrating that they're a threat to themselves or others.

MARTIN: We have to point out, I mean, it's not a panacea¹⁰, right?

FRENCH: Right.

MARTIN: New York has a red flag law on the books. And it didn't stop the Buffalo shooter this month.

FRENCH: That was a terrible example in Buffalo, N.Y., where a red flag law should have prohibited that shooter from obtaining any weapons and should have allowed police to seize weapons from that shooter. But it wasn't utilized¹¹. So that's why, you know, there has been federal legislation proposed - bipartisan federal legislation, in fact, proposed as recently as 2021 that would not only provide federal grant incentives¹² for red flag laws, but federal funding to assist in the implementation¹³.

MARTIN: Why not just ban the AR-15-style automatic rifles altogether?

FRENCH: Well, the problem with banning those weapons altogether, one, is it's a virtual impossibility. There's tens of millions, 20 million, maybe, or more of them in circulation right now. The other thing is the vast majority of these mass killings¹⁴ occur with handguns. What you're talking about when you're talking a banning of assault weapons, I'm not sure that you're talking about ending mass killings in any real meaningful way at all.

MARTIN: But that's the phrase that, I think, trips this whole thing up, in any meaningful way at all. That's so subjective¹⁵ - is it not? - because even red flag laws, we've just established that it's not going to solve everything.

FRENCH: You're talking about taking a measure with red flag laws that's targeted specifically at the conduct and the fact patterns of mass shootings versus¹⁶ imposing¹⁷ a ban on a weapon that millions of people use lawfully¹⁸ and, in many cases, has proved in other jurisdictions¹⁹ where there are assault weapons bans completely ineffective at stopping a determined²⁰ criminal from obtaining an assault weapon or modifying an otherwise legal weapon to be an assault weapon. It seems to me that if we're wanting to really target mass shootings, we would - should go where the evidence leads us. I guess it's somewhat puzzling to me why, when we see many, many instances where people obtain assault weapons even unlawfully and use them or modify them to make them unlawful, that becomes the primary focus of public debate when they're not even used for a vast majority of mass killings.

MARTIN: Well, because they're the most egregious²¹, right? Like, they - it was a weapon that was explicitly²² designed to kill as many people as possible in a short period of time. And I think the question is always, why do civilians²³ even need this weapon?

FRENCH: One of the things that the Second Amendment does is it protects your right of self-defense. So for example, you know, my family has been under threat off and on for several years. And...

MARTIN: Because of - we should say, because of your writing and...

FRENCH: Yes.

MARTIN: ...Different issues you've taken a position on, yes.

FRENCH: Yes. And in that circumstance, I feel like I have to defend myself against a foreseeable threat. And the foreseeable threat is a person who possesses either a semiautomatic rifle or a semiautomatic pistol. And so that's what we use to defend our family is a semiautomatic rifle at home. And then when you carry a weapon, a semiautomatic pistol.

MARTIN: You have that in your home, David?

FRENCH: Yes, absolutely.

MARTIN: An AR-15-style weapon?

FRENCH: Yes. Yes.

MARTIN: And it makes you feel safer?

FRENCH: It makes me safer. It's not just a feeling. It's a reality. It does make me safer. What's the justification²⁴ for me acquiescing²⁵ to a legal regime that permits the criminal to have the semiautomatic weapon, because, like, we're not going to stop them from possessing one of the most common kinds of firearms that exists in the entire United States, but would prevent me from having it for self-defense?

MARTIN: But, David, how do we balance this? I hear you. But how do you balance that with the rights of people, American citizens, children to live their life without fear that someone is randomly²⁶ going to shoot them and kill them?

FRENCH: What I advocate is that if you want to do something, rather than focus your energies on something that has not been proven to deal with the mass shooting threat, that's extraordinarily²⁷ difficult to pass under the best of circumstances, instead concentrating on something that is targeted at the mass shooting threat, that has bipartisan support, has been implemented²⁸ in many, many jurisdictions. What is interesting to me is that Governor Abbott, several years ago, indicated an openness to red flag laws, as did the NRA after Parkland very briefly²⁹. But the - sort of the grassroots gun rights base of the GOP has really vigorously opposed these laws. And so a number of Republicans who have at least indicated openness, including Donald Trump³⁰ - President Trump, when he was president, indicated an openness to red flag laws. But the grassroots GOP shut down a lot of that conversation. It's time to restart it.

MARTIN: David French is the senior editor of The Dispatch. David, I appreciate you having this conversation. Thank you.

FRENCH: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

1 proponent   

n.建议者；支持者；adj.建议的

参考例句：

• Stapp became a strong early proponent of automobile seat belts.斯塔普是力主在汽车上采用座椅安全带的早期倡导者。
• Halsey was identified as a leading proponent of the values of progressive education.哈尔西被认为是进步教育价值观的主要支持者。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

4 buffalo   

n.(北美)野牛；(亚洲)水牛

参考例句：

• Asian buffalo isn't as wild as that of America's. 亚洲水牛比美洲水牛温顺些。
• The boots are made of buffalo hide. 这双靴子是由水牛皮制成的。

5 contingent   

adj.视条件而定的；n.一组，代表团，分遣队

参考例句：

• The contingent marched in the direction of the Western Hills.队伍朝西山的方向前进。
• Whether or not we arrive on time is contingent on the weather.我们是否按时到达要视天气情况而定。

6 vindictive   

adj.有报仇心的，怀恨的，惩罚的

参考例句：

• I have no vindictive feelings about it.我对此没有恶意。
• The vindictive little girl tore up her sister's papers.那个充满报复心的小女孩撕破了她姐姐的作业。

7 wielded   

手持着使用（武器、工具等）( wield的过去式和过去分词 )； 具有； 运用（权力）； 施加（影响）

参考例句：

• The bad eggs wielded power, while the good people were oppressed. 坏人当道，好人受气
• He was nominally the leader, but others actually wielded the power. 名义上他是领导者，但实际上是别人掌握实权。

8 precedent   

n.先例，前例；惯例；adj.在前的，在先的

参考例句：

• Is there a precedent for what you want me to do?你要我做的事有前例可援吗？
• This is a wonderful achievement without precedent in Chinese history.这是中国历史上亘古未有的奇绩。

9 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

10 panacea   

n.万灵药；治百病的灵药

参考例句：

• Western aid may help but will not be a panacea. 西方援助可能会有所帮助，但并非灵丹妙药。
• There's no single panacea for the country's economic ills. 国家经济弊病百出,并无万灵药可以医治。

11 utilized   

v.利用，使用( utilize的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• In the19th century waterpower was widely utilized to generate electricity. 在19世纪人们大规模使用水力来发电。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The empty building can be utilized for city storage. 可以利用那栋空建筑物作城市的仓库。 来自《简明英汉词典》

12 incentives   

激励某人做某事的事物( incentive的名词复数 )； 刺激； 诱因； 动机

参考例句：

• tax incentives to encourage savings 鼓励储蓄的税收措施
• Furthermore, subsidies provide incentives only for investments in equipment. 更有甚者，提供津贴仅是为鼓励增添设备的投资。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

13 implementation   

n.实施，贯彻

参考例句：

• Implementation of the program is now well underway.这一项目的实施现在行情看好。

14 killings   

谋杀( killing的名词复数 )； 突然发大财，暴发

参考例句：

• His statement was seen as an allusion to the recent drug-related killings. 他的声明被视为暗指最近与毒品有关的多起凶杀案。
• The government issued a statement condemning the killings. 政府发表声明谴责这些凶杀事件。

15 subjective   

a.主观(上)的，个人的

参考例句：

• The way they interpreted their past was highly subjective. 他们解释其过去的方式太主观。
• A literary critic should not be too subjective in his approach. 文学评论家的看法不应太主观。

16 versus   

prep.以…为对手，对；与…相比之下

参考例句：

• The big match tonight is England versus Spain.今晚的大赛是英格兰对西班牙。
• The most exciting game was Harvard versus Yale.最富紧张刺激的球赛是哈佛队对耶鲁队。

17 imposing   

adj.使人难忘的，壮丽的，堂皇的，雄伟的

参考例句：

• The fortress is an imposing building.这座城堡是一座宏伟的建筑。
• He has lost his imposing appearance.他已失去堂堂仪表。

18 lawfully   

adv.守法地，合法地；合理地

参考例句：

• Lawfully established contracts shall be protected by law. 依法成立的合同应受法律保护。 来自口语例句
• As my lawfully wedded husband, in sickness and in health, till death parts us. 当成是我的合法丈夫，无论疾病灾难，直到死亡把我们分开。 来自电影对白

19 jurisdictions   

司法权( jurisdiction的名词复数 )； 裁判权； 管辖区域； 管辖范围

参考例句：

• Butler entreated him to remember the act abolishing the heritable jurisdictions. 巴特勒提醒他注意废除世袭审判权的国会法令。
• James I personally adjudicated between the two jurisdictions. 詹姆士一世亲自裁定双方纠纷。

20 determined   

adj.坚定的；有决心的

参考例句：

• I have determined on going to Tibet after graduation.我已决定毕业后去西藏。
• He determined to view the rooms behind the office.他决定查看一下办公室后面的房间。

21 egregious   

adj.非常的，过分的

参考例句：

• When it comes to blatant lies,there are none more egregious than budget figures.谈到公众谎言，没有比预算数字更令人震惊的。
• What an egregious example was here!现摆着一个多么触目惊心的例子啊。

22 explicitly   

ad.明确地，显然地

参考例句：

• The plan does not explicitly endorse the private ownership of land. 该计划没有明确地支持土地私有制。
• SARA amended section 113 to provide explicitly for a right to contribution. 《最高基金修正与再授权法案》修正了第123条，清楚地规定了分配权。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

23 civilians   

平民，百姓( civilian的名词复数 )； 老百姓

参考例句：

• the bloody massacre of innocent civilians 对无辜平民的血腥屠杀
• At least 300 civilians are unaccounted for after the bombing raids. 遭轰炸袭击之后，至少有300名平民下落不明。

24 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

25 acquiescing   

v.默认，默许( acquiesce的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Japan were acquiescing in being strangled. 日本默然同意别人把它捏死。 来自辞典例句
• Smith urged Ariza to retract his trade request and be patient several times before finally acquiescing. 在阿里扎提出要被交易时，在答应之前，他曾经数次要求对方多加考虑。 来自互联网

26 randomly   

adv.随便地，未加计划地

参考例句：

• Within the hot gas chamber, molecules are moving randomly in all directions. 在灼热的气体燃烧室内，分子在各个方向上作无规运动。 来自辞典例句
• Transformed cells are loosely attached, rounded and randomly oriented. 转化细胞则不大贴壁、圆缩并呈杂乱分布。 来自辞典例句

27 extraordinarily   

adv.格外地；极端地

参考例句：

• She is an extraordinarily beautiful girl.她是个美丽非凡的姑娘。
• The sea was extraordinarily calm that morning.那天清晨，大海出奇地宁静。

28 implemented   

v.实现( implement的过去式和过去分词 )；执行；贯彻；使生效

参考例句：

• This agreement, if not implemented, is a mere scrap of paper. 这个协定如不执行只不过是一纸空文。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• The economy is in danger of collapse unless far-reaching reforms are implemented. 如果不实施影响深远的改革，经济就面临崩溃的危险。 来自辞典例句

29 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

30 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。