美国国家公共电台 NPR--House Jan. 6 panel says Trump raised millions for a nonexistent election defense fund

House Jan. 6 panel says Trump¹ raised millions for a nonexistent election defense² fund

Transcript³

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Richard Painter, a George W. Bush White House ethics⁴ lawyer, about ex-President Trump's use of lies about the 2020 election outcome to raise $250 million from supporters.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

The House committee investigating the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol says former President Donald Trump knowingly peddled⁵ lies about the 2020 election outcome in order to raise millions of dollars from his supporters. The committee says Trump took in $250 million that he promised would go to an official election defense fund, a fund that did not exist. Instead, the lawmakers say the money went to a political action committee that passed along millions to pro-Trump organizations. They call it the big rip-off, but was it illegal?

University of Minnesota law professor Richard Painter served as the chief ethics lawyer in the White House of President George W. Bush. He recently ran as a Democrat⁶ for a U.S. House race in Minnesota. Mr. Painter, thanks for being here. Welcome back to the show.

RICHARD PAINTER: Well, thank you very much for having me.

MARTIN: It may be unethical for a former president, twice-impeached, to lie to supporters to raise money, but has the January 6 committee demonstrated that Donald Trump broke the law?

PAINTER: Well, at some point, political fundraising, just like every other form of fundraising, can become a mail fraud and wire fraud. If you lie to people to get their money, whether for an investment or for a charity or for political cause, then you do have a mail fraud and wire fraud. That's a criminal offense⁷. So the first question is whether Donald Trump knowingly lied. And everyone was telling him that he lost the election - his attorney general, his family members. It was very clear that he had lost that election. And it is becoming increasingly clear that he knew it and that he just simply refused to admit it.

And then the second thing he did was he asked people for money to challenge the election, knowing full well that there was no way he could challenge the election legally and prevail. And then the third thing that's been uncovered by the committee is the money wasn't even used to challenge the election. A lot of it was used for political candidates. And that's something completely different than what he solicited⁸ the money for.

MARTIN: Is there a problem with that? I mean, what does the law require him to disclose about the money that he's fundraising? I mean, don't campaigns often just say, hey, we need money, generally speaking, for our political efforts?

PAINTER: Well, if a campaign for a particular office says we need money for this campaign, then that's really for that campaign. Now, campaigns do transition some of their money - transfer some money to other campaigns when money's left over. You know, it's not a large percentage of it usually. But there needs to be some connection between what they say they are using the money for and what they're actually doing. Now, I will say that there is a free speech issue - there are First Amendment⁹ issues with respect to political fundraising. And there - so there would be more latitude¹⁰ there than there would be, for example, on a securities offering, where you're raising capital for a company.

Politicians, of course, often misrepresent their stands on issues and misrepresent other things when they're running for office and they're raising money. And if we held them to the highest standards that were applicable for the private sector¹¹ - when you're raising money in the private sector - we'd be putting a lot of politicians in jail. But that being said, there's not a carte blanche here to say you're raising money to challenge an election result, saying there's fraud when there actually is no fraud - you know there is no fraud - and then you're turning around and using the money for something else.

MARTIN: So intent - knowledge is the key here. I mean, we should just mention the former president released a big statement calling the committee's legitimacy¹² - or calling into question the committee's legitimacy, and he repeated lies about election fraud. He did not, however, directly address the fundraising. But you're saying that he can't claim, on any firm ground, that he truly believed the election was stolen?

PAINTER: Well, I think there's increasing evidence - that's what we're hearing - that he knew he lost. He just refused to admit it. Now, in order to prove a criminal charge, yes, you would need to prove that he knew or was extremely reckless in the statements he made. And fraud cases have been brought against people who are extremely reckless. But it is a high standard of culpability¹³ - it's not mere¹⁴ negligence¹⁵ - necessary to prosecute¹⁶ a fraud claim. But I will emphasize that there is increasing evidence that the president knew he had lost - just wouldn't admit it.

MARTIN: Richard Painter, former chief ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush, thank you so much.

PAINTER: Thank you.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

3 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

4 ethics   

n.伦理学；伦理观，道德标准

参考例句：

• The ethics of his profession don't permit him to do that.他的职业道德不允许他那样做。
• Personal ethics and professional ethics sometimes conflict.个人道德和职业道德有时会相互抵触。

5 peddled   

（沿街）叫卖( peddle的过去式和过去分词 )； 兜售； 宣传； 散播

参考例句：

• He has peddled the myth that he is supporting the local population. 他散布说他支持当地群众。
• The farmer peddled his fruit from house to house. 那个农民挨家挨户兜售他的水果。

6 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

7 offense   

n.犯规，违法行为；冒犯，得罪

参考例句：

• I hope you will not take any offense at my words. 对我讲的话请别见怪。
• His words gave great offense to everybody present.他的发言冲犯了在场的所有人。

8 solicited   

v.恳求( solicit的过去式和过去分词 )；（指娼妇）拉客；索求；征求

参考例句：

• He's already solicited their support on health care reform. 他已就医疗改革问题请求他们的支持。 来自辞典例句
• We solicited ideas from Princeton University graduates and under graduates. 我们从普林斯顿大学的毕业生与大学生中征求意见。 来自辞典例句

9 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

10 latitude   

n.纬度，行动或言论的自由(范围)，(pl.)地区

参考例句：

• The latitude of the island is 20 degrees south.该岛的纬度是南纬20度。
• The two cities are at approximately the same latitude.这两个城市差不多位于同一纬度上。

11 sector   

n.部门，部分；防御地段，防区；扇形

参考例句：

• The export sector will aid the economic recovery. 出口产业将促进经济复苏。
• The enemy have attacked the British sector.敌人已进攻英国防区。

12 legitimacy   

n.合法，正当

参考例句：

• The newspaper was directly challenging the government's legitimacy.报纸直接质疑政府的合法性。
• Managing from the top down,we operate with full legitimacy.我们进行由上而下的管理有充分的合法性。

13 culpability   

n.苛责，有罪

参考例句：

• As if the estrangement between them had come of any culpability of hers. 姐弟俩疏远的责任竟仿佛落到了她的身上！ 来自英汉文学 - 双城记
• The offence, as now defined in English law, covers a wide spectrum of culpability. 英国法律规定，违法包括很多种过失行为。 来自互联网

14 mere   

adj.纯粹的；仅仅，只不过

参考例句：

• That is a mere repetition of what you said before.那不过是重复了你以前讲的话。
• It's a mere waste of time waiting any longer.再等下去纯粹是浪费时间。

15 negligence   

n.疏忽，玩忽，粗心大意

参考例句：

• They charged him with negligence of duty.他们指责他玩忽职守。
• The traffic accident was allegedly due to negligence.这次车祸据说是由于疏忽造成的。

16 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？