美国国家公共电台 NPR--The House Jan. 6 panel wants to interview the wife of Justice Clarence Thomas

The House Jan. 6 panel wants to interview the wife of Justice Clarence Thomas

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to New Yorker staff writer Jane Mayer about the role Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme² Court Justice Clarence Thomas, played in the lead up to the attack on the Capitol.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

New Yorker staff writer Jane Mayer has profiled Ginni Thomas for the magazine, and she joins us now to talk more about this. Hey, Jane.

JANE MAYER: Hi. Thanks. Good morning.

MARTIN: Thank you for being here. So the House committee didn't try to interview Ginni Thomas before because some members said she didn't play a big role ahead of the January 6 riot. Now they do want to talk to her. Is it these specific emails between her and Eastman that have changed their minds?

MAYER: I think it's the - that they now realize that she was directly having communication with John Eastman, who was the legal architect of the coup³ attempt. It just places her closer to the center of the action. I mean, there are an awful lot of questions still unanswered about Ginni Thomas's role in all of this. And I suppose probably the most important one is really whether her husband, Justice Clarence Thomas, was aware of her activity and supportive of it, because then you sort of begin to get into the possibility that the third branch of the government, the court, was in some way tainted⁴ by all of this.

MARTIN: So let's talk about that. I mean, John Eastman - as you note, he is at the time a Trump⁵ lawyer. He is working behind the scenes to overturn the presidential vote count. He's getting emails from Ginni Thomas. He's responding to them. He once clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas, right?

MAYER: He did. And they are old friends. John Eastman and both Clarence and Ginni Thomas are old friends. And they all have connections to the Claremont Institute, which is sort of a right-wing think tank where John Eastman has been connected to it for years. And Clarence Thomas first spoke⁶ at it in 1999. They are in the same social circle and share many sort of very kind of extreme right legal theories.

MARTIN: And so she was corresponding to someone she'd had a long relationship with. Explain her history with right-wing activism, because this is - she's been at this for a long time. And they have maintained, she and her husband, that they operate in separate lanes.

MAYER: Yeah, it's been a controversy⁷ almost from the start because the way that Clarence and Ginni Thomas handle her activism is quite different from the way the other justices do. I mean, basically the tradition on the Supreme Court is that they want to appear above politics, independent of politics, neutral, basically, and impartial⁸. And so the other justices' spouses⁹, whether it was - you know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's husband gave up his law practice. John Roberts's wife gave up her activism in anti-abortion activism. There's a feeling, basically, that you need to be sort of above suspicion.

And the Thomases have handled it differently. Ginni Thomas has been an activist¹⁰ from the start and kept it up and really increased her activity during the Tea Party movement and has been giving out awards to some of the most radical¹¹ activists¹². She's very - she pushed very hard to get inside the Trump White House and place her friends in there and push out people that she didn't think were supportive of Trump enough. And she went to the January 6 rally herself and talked about it on Facebook and said, you know, we need to pray with and support MAGA.

MARTIN: So here is the wife of a sitting Supreme Court justice with a lot of political power of her own. She was urging White House chief of staff Mark Meadows to fight to overturn the election results, emailing with John Eastman. I mean, her husband since January 6 has heard and decided¹³ on at least two cases before the court related to January 6 - I mean, one of them just this year. Is that not the definition of a conflict of interest?

MAYER: Well, I mean, it's certainly - I've interviewed a number of legal experts who were always careful about criticizing the Supreme Court, but nonetheless have come down like a ton of bricks on this. And I saw Adam Schiff, who's a Democratic member of the investigative committee in Congress last night, say that it just - the - his quote was, it screams conflict of interest.

MARTIN: So what happens? I mean, can he be forced to recuse himself?

MAYER: Well, he can't be forced. The only way to have power over a Supreme Court justice is to impeach¹⁴ them. I mean, that is the only remedy for a wayward Supreme Court justice. And I don't know anyone who thinks politically that's likely to happen, but I think there would be a storm of criticism of Clarence Thomas if he continues to hear cases in which his wife seems to be deeply involved.

MARTIN: We'll wait for Ginni Thomas's testimony¹⁵ to the House investigating committee. Jane Mayer of The New Yorker, thank you so much for your time and reporting.

MAYER: Great to be with you.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

3 coup   

n.政变；突然而成功的行动

参考例句：

• The monarch was ousted by a military coup.那君主被军事政变者废黜了。
• That government was overthrown in a military coup three years ago.那个政府在3年前的军事政变中被推翻。

4 tainted   

adj.腐坏的；污染的；沾污的；感染的v.使变质( taint的过去式和过去分词 )；使污染；败坏；被污染，腐坏，败坏

参考例句：

• The administration was tainted with scandal. 丑闻使得政府声名狼藉。
• He was considered tainted by association with the corrupt regime. 他因与腐败政府有牵连而名誉受损。 来自《简明英汉词典》

5 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

6 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

7 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

8 impartial   

adj.(in,to)公正的，无偏见的

参考例句：

• He gave an impartial view of the state of affairs in Ireland.他对爱尔兰的事态发表了公正的看法。
• Careers officers offer impartial advice to all pupils.就业指导员向所有学生提供公正无私的建议。

9 spouses   

n.配偶，夫或妻( spouse的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Jobs are available for spouses on campus and in the community. 校园里和社区里有配偶可做的工作。 来自辞典例句
• An astonishing number of spouses-most particularly in the upper-income brackets-have no close notion of their husbands'paychecks. 相当大一部分妇女——特别在高收入阶层——并不很了解他们丈夫的薪金。 来自辞典例句

10 activist   

n.活动分子，积极分子

参考例句：

• He's been a trade union activist for many years.多年来他一直是工会的积极分子。
• He is a social activist in our factory.他是我厂的社会活动积极分子。

11 radical   

n.激进份子，原子团，根号；adj.根本的，激进的，彻底的

参考例句：

• The patient got a radical cure in the hospital.病人在医院得到了根治。
• She is radical in her demands.她的要求十分偏激。

12 activists   

n.（政治活动的）积极分子，活动家( activist的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• His research work was attacked by animal rights activists . 他的研究受到了动物权益维护者的抨击。
• Party activists with lower middle class pedigrees are numerous. 党的激进分子中有很多出身于中产阶级下层。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

14 impeach   

v.弹劾；检举

参考例句：

• We must impeach the judge for taking bribes.我们一定要检举法官收受贿赂。
• The committee decided to impeach the President.委员会决定弹劾总统。

15 testimony   

n.证词；见证，证明

参考例句：

• The testimony given by him is dubious.他所作的证据是可疑的。
• He was called in to bear testimony to what the police officer said.他被传入为警官所说的话作证。