美国国家公共电台 NPR--Ackerman's 'Fifth Act' focuses on the final week of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan

Ackerman's 'Fifth Act' focuses on the final week of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan

Transcript¹

NPR's Rachel Martin talks to Elliot Ackerman about his new book, The Fifth Act: America's End in Afghanistan. Waves of Afghans were trying to evacuate² the country.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

It's almost been one year since the Taliban took over Afghanistan again and the U.S. military pulled out of the country. And Marine³ Corps⁴ veteran Elliot Ackerman was watching all the chaos⁵ from a distance.

ELLIOT ACKERMAN: In Italy, of all places, about as far away from the fall of Kabul as you can get.

MARTIN: He was on a long-planned vacation with his wife and young kids. But he couldn't tear himself away from what was happening. Ackerman had deployed⁶ to Afghanistan multiple times. He felt bound to America's Afghan allies. And when the U.S. announced it was leaving, those Afghans were desperate to get out. He lay awake at night, glued to his cellphone.

ACKERMAN: My entire network was lighting⁷ up. And it had become, quickly, a crowdsourced evacuation, with each person playing their part. Whether some people were trying to raise money for charter flights - other people were arranging the buses that would transport evacuees⁸ from various pickup⁹ points in Kabul into the airport.

MARTIN: Ackerman was key because he knew Marines who were inside the airport manning those gates, deciding who could come in and who could not.

ACKERMAN: So when people were calling me saying, hey; can you get this person out? You know, they would say, maybe we can get them on the third bus - that is, if there is a third bus, if we can keep running these evacuations. So it was, in many respects, this sort of modern-day's, crowdsourced "Schindler's List" that you were watching in this rush over those two weeks to get people into the airport and get people flown out.

MARTIN: Elliot Ackerman writes about all this in his new book. It is called "The Fifth Act: America's End In Afghanistan."

Was there a point when you and your network could step out of just the logistics that you were managing to question why it was falling on you to be doing this?

ACKERMAN: I think everyone was very much focused on the task at hand because the stakes were obviously very high, you know? You've got the photographs of the people who are trying to get out and their families. You know, and these aren't people at a certain point any of us knew. The only family that I got out who I had a direct, personal connection to was my interpreter. He has since moved to the U.S. But his family was still there. And we were able to get his family out. But everyone else, these were strangers. And they were strangers for most of us. So in that moment, you know, you can't really step away. But there were certainly little interludes. And my wife, in the book, she kind of almost comes off like a Greek chorus and this sort of - the conscience of the book saying, you know, why are you all having to do this? You know, why are the people who left the wars 10 years ago now being sucked in to try - to finish them?

MARTIN: Would you go so far as to describe America's exodus¹⁰ from Afghanistan as a betrayal?

ACKERMAN: You know, Rachel, the word I have used has been collapse¹¹. I think it was a collapse of American morals. You know, we made these promises, and we fell short. It was a collapse of American competence¹². I mean, listen; despite the heroic efforts of those who were at the airport - and their efforts were truly heroic. So I'm not questioning their competence. But I would question the competence of decision-making that put us into this position, where our back was up against a wall with this August 31 withdrawal¹³ date that we couldn't seem to move. It was a collapse of hierarchy¹⁴ because as the war was ending in those days, I found myself on text chains and phone calls with retired¹⁵ four-star generals and admirals - some of whom had command of the entire war - to senior officials, because no one could get anyone out because of the craziness. And because, for a brief window, the team that I was working with was having some success, we found ourselves sort of in this collapsed¹⁶ hierarchy, all working together. And that was surreal for me at times.

MARTIN: You write in the book about how it's impossible to really separate yourself from the experience of war. Can you try to explain what it feels like and looks like in your subconscious¹⁷? I imagine it still lives there.

ACKERMAN: Well, Rachel, people have sometimes asked me, how do you think the wars changed you? And I've never known how to answer that question because, you know, the wars, in so many ways, made me. I don't know kind of how to unbraid it out of kind of the knots that are me. But, you know, the friendships that I have there, the memories that I have from that time, of course, I think about. And this is a time when I was growing up. I mean, I grew up there in the war. I - you know, I entered the service and started that - sort of that training pipeline¹⁸ at 17 years old. And as you see in the book, too, those friendships have projected out because as Kabul was falling, so many of the people I'm working with, you know, these are folks who've also transitioned. They've ended the wars themselves. And we're all still friends. But then there's this moment where kind of that entire network gets activated¹⁹. And we know we need to go back and do our best to try to get as many people out as we can, to try to, you know, make something right out of this. So the war is kind of always there in me.

MARTIN: As a country, we build these memorials to wars. You have spent some time thinking about what an appropriate memorial would look like to these particular American wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And I found your description of this very moving. Would you mind recounting it?

ACKERMAN: I started thinking about it with regards to the recent passage of the Global War on Terrorism Memorial Act, which has gone through Congress, to authorize²⁰ a memorial to these wars. But the global war on terrorism isn't over yet. So it's actually interesting. For the first time to as a country, we will be trying to make a memorial to a war that we are still technically²¹ fighting. But it got me thinking that - how would you make a memorial to a forever war? And that got me thinking, well, maybe what would be more appropriate is instead of erecting²² all these memorials upward, maybe we should dig downward, kind of like the Vietnam Veterans War Memorial. And I imagined a war memorial that would look almost like this sloping granite²³ rock sort of descending²⁴ downward conically, like something from Dante. And we would get rid of all the memorials to each specific war. And we would just have one American war memorial. And it would begin with the names. The first name, Crispus Attucks, who was killed with the Boston Massacre²⁵. And we would just list them all chronologically²⁶, digging ourselves deeper and deeper and deeper. So we have more than a million war dead at this point in our country's history. And every time we fund a new war, we would just add the names going down and down into the earth. And then, in my imagination of this war memorial, when you got to the very last name, there would be a desk and a pen. And Congress would pass a law that before any troop deployment²⁷, the president - he or she - would have to come down to the war memorial. And that pen would be the only pen that could be used to sign that troop deployment. They would have to walk by all of the war dead before they would need to do that. And then we wouldn't have to have any more debates about war memorials. We'd just know what we did every time we fought a war. We'd just add the names.

MARTIN: Elliot Ackerman. His new book is called "The Fifth Act: America's End In Afghanistan." Elliot, thank you so much.

ACKERMAN: Thanks for having me, Rachel.

(SOUNDBITE OF LONDON GRAMMAR SONG, "HEY NOW")

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 evacuate   

v.遣送；搬空；抽出；排泄；大(小)便

参考例句：

• We must evacuate those soldiers at once!我们必须立即撤出这些士兵！
• They were planning to evacuate the seventy American officials still in the country.他们正计划转移仍滞留在该国的70名美国官员。

3 marine   

adj.海的；海生的；航海的；海事的；n.水兵

参考例句：

• Marine creatures are those which live in the sea. 海洋生物是生存在海里的生物。
• When the war broke out,he volunteered for the Marine Corps.战争爆发时，他自愿参加了海军陆战队。

4 corps   

n.(通信等兵种的)部队；(同类作的)一组

参考例句：

• The medical corps were cited for bravery in combat.医疗队由于在战场上的英勇表现而受嘉奖。
• When the war broke out,he volunteered for the Marine Corps.战争爆发时，他自愿参加了海军陆战队。

5 chaos   

n.混乱，无秩序

参考例句：

• After the failure of electricity supply the city was in chaos.停电后，城市一片混乱。
• The typhoon left chaos behind it.台风后一片混乱。

6 deployed   

（尤指军事行动）使展开( deploy的过去式和过去分词 )； 施展； 部署； 有效地利用

参考例句：

• Tanks have been deployed all along the front line. 沿整个前线已部署了坦克。
• The artillery was deployed to bear on the fort. 火炮是对着那个碉堡部署的。

7 lighting   

n.照明，光线的明暗，舞台灯光

参考例句：

• The gas lamp gradually lost ground to electric lighting.煤气灯逐渐为电灯所代替。
• The lighting in that restaurant is soft and romantic.那个餐馆照明柔和而且浪漫。

8 evacuees   

n.被疏散者( evacuee的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Moreover, for multi-exits, evacuees select a exit based on game theory. 在有多个出口时，疏散人员根据对策论选择出口。 来自互联网
• Evacuees wade through flooded area following heavy monsoon rains in Peshawar on Saturday, July 31, 2010. 撤离灾区涉水通过后在白沙瓦沉重的季风降雨在周六，2010年7月31日。 来自互联网

9 pickup   

n.拾起，获得

参考例句：

• I would love to trade this car for a pickup truck.我愿意用这辆汽车换一辆小型轻便卡车。||The luck guy is a choice pickup for the girls.那位幸运的男孩是女孩子们想勾搭上的人。

10 exodus   

v.大批离去，成群外出

参考例句：

• The medical system is facing collapse because of an exodus of doctors.由于医生大批离去，医疗系统面临崩溃。
• Man's great challenge at this moment is to prevent his exodus from this planet.人在当前所遇到的最大挑战，就是要防止人从这个星球上消失。

11 collapse   

vi.累倒；昏倒；倒塌；塌陷

参考例句：

• The country's economy is on the verge of collapse.国家的经济已到了崩溃的边缘。
• The engineer made a complete diagnosis of the bridge's collapse.工程师对桥的倒塌做了一次彻底的调查分析。

12 competence   

n.能力，胜任，称职

参考例句：

• This mess is a poor reflection on his competence.这种混乱情况说明他难当此任。
• These are matters within the competence of the court.这些是法院权限以内的事。

13 withdrawal   

n.取回，提款；撤退，撤军；收回，撤销

参考例句：

• The police were forced to make a tactical withdrawal.警方被迫进行战术撤退。
• They insisted upon a withdrawal of the statement and a public apology.他们坚持要收回那些话并公开道歉。

14 hierarchy   

n.等级制度；统治集团，领导层

参考例句：

• There is a rigid hierarchy of power in that country.那个国家有一套严密的权力等级制度。
• She's high up in the management hierarchy.她在管理阶层中地位很高。

15 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

16 collapsed   

adj.倒塌的

参考例句：

• Jack collapsed in agony on the floor. 杰克十分痛苦地瘫倒在地板上。
• The roof collapsed under the weight of snow. 房顶在雪的重压下突然坍塌下来。

17 subconscious   

n./adj.潜意识(的)，下意识(的)

参考例句：

• Nail biting is often a subconscious reaction to tension.咬指甲通常是紧张时的下意识反映。
• My answer seemed to come from the subconscious.我的回答似乎出自下意识。

18 pipeline   

n.管道，管线

参考例句：

• The pipeline supplies Jordan with 15 per cent of its crude oil.该管道供给约旦15%的原油。
• A single pipeline serves all the houses with water.一条单管路给所有的房子供水。

19 activated   

adj. 激活的 动词activate的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• The canister is filled with activated charcoal.蒸气回收罐中充满了活性炭。

20 authorize   

v.授权，委任；批准，认可

参考例句：

• He said that he needed to get his supervisor to authorize my refund.他说必须让主管人员批准我的退款。
• Only the President could authorize the use of the atomic bomb.只有总统才能授权使用原子弹。

21 technically   

adv.专门地，技术上地

参考例句：

• Technically it is the most advanced equipment ever.从技术上说，这是最先进的设备。
• The tomato is technically a fruit,although it is eaten as a vegetable.严格地说，西红柿是一种水果，尽管它是当作蔬菜吃的。

22 erecting   

v.使直立，竖起( erect的现在分词 )；建立

参考例句：

• Nations can restrict their foreign trade by erecting barriers to exports as well as imports. 象设置进口壁垒那样，各国可以通过设置出口壁垒来限制对外贸易。 来自辞典例句
• Could you tell me the specific lift-slab procedure for erecting buildings? 能否告之用升板法安装楼房的具体程序？ 来自互联网

23 granite   

adj.花岗岩，花岗石

参考例句：

• They squared a block of granite.他们把一块花岗岩加工成四方形。
• The granite overlies the older rocks.花岗岩躺在磨损的岩石上面。

24 descending   

n. 下行 adj. 下降的

参考例句：

• The results are expressed in descending numerical order . 结果按数字降序列出。
• The climbers stopped to orient themselves before descending the mountain. 登山者先停下来确定所在的位置，然后再下山。

25 massacre   

n.残杀，大屠杀；v.残杀，集体屠杀

参考例句：

• There was a terrible massacre of villagers here during the war.在战争中，这里的村民惨遭屠杀。
• If we forget the massacre,the massacre will happen again!忘记了大屠杀，大屠杀就有可能再次发生！

26 chronologically   

ad. 按年代的

参考例句：

• Manuscripts show cases arranged topically not chronologically. 从原稿看案例是按专题安排的而不是按年代次序安排的。
• Though the exhibition has been arranged chronologically, there are a few exceptions. 虽然展览的时间便已经安排好了，但是也有少数的例外。

27 deployment   

n. 部署,展开

参考例句：

• He has inquired out the deployment of the enemy troops. 他已查出敌军的兵力部署情况。
• Quality function deployment (QFD) is a widely used customer-driven quality, design and manufacturing management tool. 质量功能展开(quality function deployment,QFD)是一个广泛应用的顾客需求驱动的设计、制造和质量管理工具。