美国国家公共电台 NPR--Trump says the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago but the agency isn't commenting

Trump¹ says the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago but the agency isn't commenting

Transcript²

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to NYU Law Professor Stephen Gillers about a reported FBI search of former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago home in Palm Beach, Fla.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

We're turning now to Stephen Gillers, professor of law at New York University, where he teaches evidence and legal ethics³. Welcome to the program.

STEPHEN GILLERS: Thank you.

FADEL: So, Stephen, obviously there is a lot we don't know about this search - the Justice Department not commenting, the FBI not commenting. But I want to get into the context here. What kind of evidence would the FBI have had to show a judge to get permission for a search like this?

GILLERS: Right. Well, dramatic as it is to search a former president's residence, if you walk back the cat, you have to ask, what would have happened before that? And what the Justice Department would have had to have had is evidence of an ongoing⁴ criminal activity. That's what warrants mean to uncover. And so the Justice Department, the national security establishment, had to persuade a federal judge that there is probable cause to believe that a crime is being committed and then that a search and seizure⁵ was necessary to avoid destruction of any evidence they were looking for.

FADEL: You know, is the threshold different for former presidents? As you mentioned, it's dramatic, unprecedented⁶ in many ways, to get the Justice Department to authorize⁷ this kind of search. Does the threshold - is it higher than a normal private citizen for a former president?

GILLERS: It's not higher on paper. It's the same standard. There's no former president exception to the Fourth Amendment⁸. But obviously, all of this takes place in a political context. Garland is a very cautious man, and we can be sure that he wanted to be sure that everything was done beyond criticism.

FADEL: Now, the former president's son Eric Trump told Fox News last night that his father was actively⁹ working with authorities to return documents to the National Archives. Now, if that were the case, would the FBI have searched Mar-a-Lago in a move that seems to have surprised both the former president and the current president?

GILLERS: The president has had - the former president has had more than a year and a half to return the entire contents of the 15 boxes that he removed from the White House. The Justice Department is saying, as I read this, we're fed up. We don't trust you to be responsive. You're playing games with us, and we're going in and we're taking what you haven't returned that you promised to return.

FADEL: And this action, what does it tell us about the potential evidence authorities hope to uncover with the search that they just did?

GILLERS: Well, at the very least - because you can't have a warrant without a crime and probable cause of a crime. So at the very least, there are documents that the department has probable cause to believe Trump retains, which he is not legally authorized¹⁰ to retain because they are government property. And removing government property and concealing¹¹ government property is itself a crime. So that's what we know about the contents of the documents.

FADEL: Could any of what may have been recovered from Mar-a-Lago be used against former President Trump in other criminal investigations¹², including things like the January 6 investigations?

GILLERS: Yes, absolutely. One of the interesting things about search warrants is that you get the warrant to search for particular items - documents about classified information. But if, in the course of doing that, there is other evidence of other crimes that are in plain view, the agents conducting the search can seize that as well. Or if, on discovery of the classified information, they come across other papers when - back at the White House or back at the Justice Department - that reveal other crime, they can use that as well, too.

FADEL: Now, what sort of legal jeopardy¹³, then, might former President Trump be in after this FBI search?

GILLERS: Well, the narrowest possible risk is that he violated by retaining whatever the government believes he retained - and if he did retain it - classified information that, for a year and a half, he hasn't returned despite being asked to return it. And that would violate a criminal statute¹⁴ that forbids concealment¹⁵ or removal of government property if done willfully and unlawfully.

FADEL: So what does that mean then for him? When you say a criminal - violating a criminal statute, I mean, could this go to a criminal court, jail time?

GILLERS: Right. Well, I suspect there's a grand jury. I think we know there's a grand jury looking into this, as well. Garland will have to decide at some point whether he's got evidence sufficient to seek an indictment¹⁶ under this classified information statute. But more important, he's going to have to decide whether he wants to because we are dealing¹⁷ with a former president. We - this does exist in a highly politicized context. It's not the usual run-of-the-mill FBI search.

FADEL: I'm going to have to leave it there. That's Professor Stephen Gillers of New York University School of Law. Thank you.

GILLERS: Thank you.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 ethics   

n.伦理学；伦理观，道德标准

参考例句：

• The ethics of his profession don't permit him to do that.他的职业道德不允许他那样做。
• Personal ethics and professional ethics sometimes conflict.个人道德和职业道德有时会相互抵触。

4 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

5 seizure   

n.没收；占有；抵押

参考例句：

• The seizure of contraband is made by customs.那些走私品是被海关没收的。
• The courts ordered the seizure of all her property.法院下令查封她所有的财产。

6 unprecedented   

adj.无前例的，新奇的

参考例句：

• The air crash caused an unprecedented number of deaths.这次空难的死亡人数是空前的。
• A flood of this sort is really unprecedented.这样大的洪水真是十年九不遇。

7 authorize   

v.授权，委任；批准，认可

参考例句：

• He said that he needed to get his supervisor to authorize my refund.他说必须让主管人员批准我的退款。
• Only the President could authorize the use of the atomic bomb.只有总统才能授权使用原子弹。

8 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

9 actively   

adv.积极地，勤奋地

参考例句：

• During this period all the students were actively participating.在这节课中所有的学生都积极参加。
• We are actively intervening to settle a quarrel.我们正在积极调解争执。

10 authorized   

a.委任的，许可的

参考例句：

• An administrative order is valid if authorized by a statute.如果一个行政命令得到一个法规的认可那么这个命令就是有效的。

11 concealing   

v.隐藏，隐瞒，遮住( conceal的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Despite his outward display of friendliness, I sensed he was concealing something. 尽管他表现得友善，我还是感觉到他有所隐瞒。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• SHE WAS BREAKING THE COMPACT, AND CONCEALING IT FROM HIM. 她违反了他们之间的约定，还把他蒙在鼓里。 来自英汉文学 - 三万元遗产

12 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

13 jeopardy   

n.危险；危难

参考例句：

• His foolish behaviour may put his whole future in jeopardy.他愚蠢的行为可能毁了他一生的前程。
• It is precisely at this juncture that the boss finds himself in double jeopardy.恰恰在这个关键时刻，上司发现自己处于进退两难的境地。

14 statute   

n.成文法，法令，法规；章程，规则，条例

参考例句：

• Protection for the consumer is laid down by statute.保障消费者利益已在法令里作了规定。
• The next section will consider this environmental statute in detail.下一部分将详细论述环境法令的问题。

15 concealment   

n.隐藏, 掩盖，隐瞒

参考例句：

• the concealment of crime 对罪行的隐瞒
• Stay in concealment until the danger has passed. 把自己藏起来，待危险过去后再出来。

16 indictment   

n.起诉；诉状

参考例句：

• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。
• They issued an indictment against them.他们起诉了他们。

17 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。