美国国家公共电台 NPR--Was it surprising that the judge favored unsealing portions of the affidavit?

Was it surprising that the judge favored unsealing portions of the affidavit¹?

Transcript²

NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to Jessica Roth, a law professor at the Cardozo Law School at Yeshiva University in New York, and a former federal prosecutor³, about the Mar-a-Lago search affidavit.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Jessica Roth joins us next. She worked in the United States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York for seven years and is now a professor of law at the Cardozo Law School at Yeshiva University in New York.

Welcome.

JESSICA ROTH: Thank you.

INSKEEP: Were you surprised that the judge favors unsealing portions of this affidavit?

ROTH: I was surprised because it is so exceedingly rare that an affidavit in support of a search warrant would be released at this stage - before any charges have been filed, before we even know whether charges will be filed. On the other hand, if ever there were a circumstance in which a judge might release at least portions of an affidavit in support of a search warrant, this would be it because - has been remarked upon repeatedly - this is just such an unusual situation involving a former president of the United States who has publicly announced that the search already took place.

INSKEEP: But with that said, Carrie Johnson, who's very well-sourced and very knowledgeable⁴, said a couple of things I want to follow up on. One, she said, it seems likely that once the Justice Department redacts whatever they feel they need to redact from this document, there would be, quote, "minimal⁵ new information of the sort the public would be interested in." Why would that be?

ROTH: Well, because the government is trying to protect some very important interests here. And the judge is cognizant of this. The judge is trying to balance some very important competing interests and walking a really fine line. On the one hand, you have the interest in transparency and promoting the public's understanding of events of heightened public interest. On the other hand, we have really important government interest in protecting the integrity of an ongoing⁶ investigation⁷, protecting witnesses and protecting national security information. And the judge has indicated and ordered that the government propose redactions and also given it the space and invited submission⁸ of a legal memorandum⁹ justifying¹⁰ the redactions.

And so the government is going to presumably submit something in the form of a redacted affidavit explaining the rationale for all the redactions. And so that may wind up essentially¹¹ being a redacted document where very little remains¹² available for public disclosure. On the other hand, the judge who reviewed the search warrant affidavit and approved it clearly seems to think that there is some portion of it that can be released to the public. And what he said is whether it actually promotes public understanding all that much is really sort of beyond the scope of his consideration of whether or not to release it at all.

INSKEEP: Carrie also mentioned another thing that I don't want to let pass without discussing. Trump¹³ publicly called for the affidavit to be released when he's talking on social media. But Trump's lawyers, she notes, took no position in court. They're not making an effort in court to get this thing released. Is it possible the lawyers know that this affidavit could be very, very damaging to their client?

ROTH: I think it is very telling that Trump's lawyers are not taking a position in court when they clearly could do so. It is hard to imagine that there's anything in this affidavit that is beneficial for Trump to be released. So I think that they may be trying to benefit strategically from sort of publicly calling for its release. On the other hand, not taking a position in court - but the fact that they are not taking a position in court, I think, increases the argument for releasing it because the president - former president - is not asserting, at least in court, any remaining privacy interest in the affidavit remaining under seal.

INSKEEP: Is the public interest in finding out about this criminal investigation that normally would be private - does - it illustrates¹⁴ our larger reality about law enforcement. We would like to think that law enforcement is purely¹⁵ driven by facts, that it has nothing to do with politics. But the reality is it's a democracy. And so everything is in some way political. We hire the president, who in turn hires the attorney general with the consent of the Senate. And they hire all these lawyers. And we, the people, have a role to play here. And that is why we, the people, would expect to know, to some extent, what's going on.

ROTH: Yes. There's a very important value in transparency into what the government is doing on our behalf, including what law enforcement is doing on our behalf. And the case law governing making documents in judicial¹⁶ proceedings¹⁷ available to the public recognizes that important interest in transparency, which is important not only for promoting public understanding, but maintaining the integrity of law enforcement operations. Here, however, we have to balance that very important interest against the interest that the government has articulated in protecting ongoing investigations¹⁸.

INSKEEP: Does this have any...

ROTH: And also...

INSKEEP: Go on. Go on. Go on.

ROTH: Well, the government - is that, in fact, it - not only the interest in protecting an ongoing investigation, but the protection of witnesses, both in this investigation and in future investigations, who might be chilled to the extent that information that might identify the witnesses who cooperated here is disclosed, and then also the interest in this unique circumstance, given the nature of the investigation in protecting national security information.

INSKEEP: Jessica Roth, thanks for your insights - really appreciate it.

ROTH: My pleasure.

INSKEEP: She's a former federal prosecutor, now a professor of law at the Cardozo Law School at Yeshiva University.

1 affidavit   

n.宣誓书

参考例句：

• I gave an affidavit to the judge about the accident I witnessed.我向法官提交了一份关于我目击的事故的证词。
• The affidavit was formally read to the court.书面证词正式向出席法庭的人宣读了。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

4 knowledgeable   

adj.知识渊博的；有见识的

参考例句：

• He's quite knowledgeable about the theatre.他对戏剧很有心得。
• He made some knowledgeable remarks at the meeting.他在会上的发言颇有见地。

5 minimal   

adj.尽可能少的，最小的

参考例句：

• They referred to this kind of art as minimal art.他们把这种艺术叫微型艺术。
• I stayed with friends, so my expenses were minimal.我住在朋友家，所以我的花费很小。

6 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

7 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

8 submission   

n.服从，投降；温顺，谦虚；提出

参考例句：

• The defeated general showed his submission by giving up his sword.战败将军缴剑表示投降。
• No enemy can frighten us into submission.任何敌人的恐吓都不能使我们屈服。

9 memorandum   

n.备忘录，便笺

参考例句：

• The memorandum was dated 23 August,2008.备忘录上注明的日期是2008年8月23日。
• The Secretary notes down the date of the meeting in her memorandum book.秘书把会议日期都写在记事本上。

10 justifying   

证明…有理( justify的现在分词 )； 为…辩护； 对…作出解释； 为…辩解（或辩护）

参考例句：

• He admitted it without justifying it. 他不加辩解地承认这个想法。
• The fellow-travellers'service usually consisted of justifying all the tergiversations of Soviet intenal and foreign policy. 同路人的服务通常包括对苏联国内外政策中一切互相矛盾之处进行辩护。

11 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

12 remains   

n.剩余物，残留物；遗体，遗迹

参考例句：

• He ate the remains of food hungrily.他狼吞虎咽地吃剩余的食物。
• The remains of the meal were fed to the dog.残羹剩饭喂狗了。

13 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

14 illustrates   

给…加插图( illustrate的第三人称单数 )； 说明； 表明； （用示例、图画等）说明

参考例句：

• This historical novel illustrates the breaking up of feudal society in microcosm. 这部历史小说是走向崩溃的封建社会的缩影。
• Alfred Adler, a famous doctor, had an experience which illustrates this. 阿尔弗莱德 - 阿德勒是一位著名的医生，他有过可以说明这点的经历。 来自中级百科部分

15 purely   

adv.纯粹地，完全地

参考例句：

• I helped him purely and simply out of friendship.我帮他纯粹是出于友情。
• This disproves the theory that children are purely imitative.这证明认为儿童只会单纯地模仿的理论是站不住脚的。

16 judicial   

adj.司法的，法庭的，审判的，明断的，公正的

参考例句：

• He is a man with a judicial mind.他是个公正的人。
• Tom takes judicial proceedings against his father.汤姆对他的父亲正式提出诉讼。

17 proceedings   

n.进程，过程，议程；诉讼(程序)；公报

参考例句：

• He was released on bail pending committal proceedings. 他交保获释正在候审。
• to initiate legal proceedings against sb 对某人提起诉讼

18 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。