美国国家公共电台 NPR--Pope Francis says being homosexual 'isn't a crime'

Pope Francis says being homosexual 'isn't a crime'

Transcript¹

In an interview with the Associated Press, Pope Francis says being homosexual "isn't a crime" and that Catholic bishops² should welcome members of the LGBTQ community into the church.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Pope Francis says homosexuality is not a crime. He made the statement in an interview with the Associated Press, adding that legislation that criminalizes same-sex relationships is, quote, "unjust." And he told the AP in these words, we are all children of God. And God loves us as we are, as he asked Catholic bishops to welcome LGBTQ people into the church. Joining us on Skype now to discuss is Father James Martin. He's a Jesuit priest and editor at large of America Magazine. His LGBT ministry³ is the subject of his book, "Building A Bridge." Good morning.

JAMES MARTIN: Good morning.

FADEL: So I'd love to just hear what you were thinking when you heard these remarks from the pope.

MARTIN: Well, I was delighted. It's something that many people have been encouraging him to say and encouraging the Vatican to say. And I think it'll certainly save lives. I think, in something like 67 countries, it's still a criminal offense⁴ - that is same-sex relations. And in 10 countries, it's a capital offense that can be punishable by death. And so I think his words will save lives.

FADEL: Now, the pope, though, isn't changing church policy here, right? I mean, he's still calling homosexuality a sin. So how does he and the Catholic Church distinguish between sin and public policy or laws?

MARTIN: Well, I think, first of all, it's important to say that when he was saying being homosexual is a sin, he was kind of repeating what others might say in Catholic teaching. Simply being a homosexual is not a sin. As he said, we're all children of God. He's not changed any church doctrine⁵. And I think one of the wonderful things about this statement is that it doesn't challenge any church teaching. But it really affirms church teaching that we should treat LGBTQ people with respect, compassion⁶ and sensitivity. And, frankly⁷, it's a very pro-life move because it is defending the lives of, you know, persecuted⁸ LGBTQ people worldwide.

FADEL: Now, the pope attributed - he said that the church needs to work to end these types of laws. And he attributed the support of bishops to these laws to the cultural background. They need to go through what he called a process of conversion⁹. How does that practically work when this is so deeply rooted in culture and history?

MARTIN: Well, that's a huge call. For example, the bishops of Ghana have actually supported laws that criminalize homosexuality. And really, you know, what might seem bland¹⁰ to us in the West, as you point out, in places like sub-Saharan Africa or Eastern Europe are really going to be challenging. So I think the bishops in these countries are going to have to do some soul-searching as a result of this interview today.

FADEL: Now, you mentioned Ghana. But more than a dozen states in the U.S. still have anti-sodomy laws on the books. There are - and you mentioned these dozens of countries where laws may carry the death penalty. So how realistic is it that the pope's remarks influence these large Catholic populations and change policy?

MARTIN: Well, I think it's going to change - I would hope it would change what some people think, you know, on the ground, in the pews. But really, when it comes to decision-makers and people who set policy for the Catholic Church - that is the bishops and bishops conferences - they're going to have to pay attention to this. It's going to be much harder for them, for example, to side with these repressive laws. He could not have been any clearer in his statement today to AP.

FADEL: Does this bring the church any closer to welcoming and acknowledging members of the LGBTQ community as practicing Catholic who can receive sacraments, like marriage?

MARTIN: Well, I don't - he's not talking about marriage here. But I think it does make people feel more welcome. You know, Pope Francis, you know, often teaches with words, as he does today, but also in gestures, you know, meeting LGBTQ people. On the website Outreach, we noted¹¹ that he meets with transgender people almost monthly. And so these things do help people feel more welcome in, really, what is, after all, their church, too.

FADEL: Now, the timing¹² of these statements - does Pope Francis feel any freer to move in a different direction since the death of Pope Benedict, who was regarded as a much more - as much more conservative?

MARTIN: That's a great question. I'm not sure about that. I think he's always been his own person. I think it's probably even more significant the timing comes between - you know, before his trip to South Sudan, you know? And as you know, in many parts of Africa, these laws are still there. So I'm not sure about the timing. And I'm really not sure about whether or not he feels any freer after Pope Benedict's death.

FADEL: Now, you mentioned - we talked about the church's stance. Do you think this is the start of more to come on policy when it comes to LGBTQ people?

MARTIN: Well, I hope so. There are certain things that the Vatican can do without changing any church teaching. This is one of them that many advocates have been pointing to. The other one would be, for example, opposing conversion therapy and then finally coming out even - more strongly against violence against LGBTQ people.

FADEL: Father James Martin, editor at large of the Jesuit magazine America. Thank you so much for your time.

MARTIN: My pleasure.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 bishops   

（基督教某些教派管辖大教区的）主教( bishop的名词复数 )； （国际象棋的）象

参考例句：

• Each player has two bishops at the start of the game. 棋赛开始时，每名棋手有两只象。
• "Only sheriffs and bishops and rich people and kings, and such like. “他劫富济贫，抢的都是郡长、主教、国王之类的富人。

3 ministry   

n.(政府的)部；牧师

参考例句：

• They sent a deputation to the ministry to complain.他们派了一个代表团到部里投诉。
• We probed the Air Ministry statements.我们调查了空军部的记录。

4 offense   

n.犯规，违法行为；冒犯，得罪

参考例句：

• I hope you will not take any offense at my words. 对我讲的话请别见怪。
• His words gave great offense to everybody present.他的发言冲犯了在场的所有人。

5 doctrine   

n.教义；主义；学说

参考例句：

• He was impelled to proclaim his doctrine.他不得不宣扬他的教义。
• The council met to consider changes to doctrine.宗教议会开会考虑更改教义。

6 compassion   

n.同情，怜悯

参考例句：

• He could not help having compassion for the poor creature.他情不自禁地怜悯起那个可怜的人来。
• Her heart was filled with compassion for the motherless children.她对于没有母亲的孩子们充满了怜悯心。

7 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

8 persecuted   

（尤指宗教或政治信仰的）迫害(~sb. for sth.)( persecute的过去式和过去分词 )； 烦扰，困扰或骚扰某人

参考例句：

• Throughout history, people have been persecuted for their religious beliefs. 人们因宗教信仰而受迫害的情况贯穿了整个历史。
• Members of these sects are ruthlessly persecuted and suppressed. 这些教派的成员遭到了残酷的迫害和镇压。

9 conversion   

n.转化，转换，转变

参考例句：

• He underwent quite a conversion.他彻底变了。
• Waste conversion is a part of the production process.废物处理是生产过程的一个组成部分。

10 bland   

adj.淡而无味的，温和的，无刺激性的

参考例句：

• He eats bland food because of his stomach trouble.他因胃病而吃清淡的食物。
• This soup is too bland for me.这汤我喝起来偏淡。

11 noted   

adj.著名的，知名的

参考例句：

• The local hotel is noted for its good table.当地的那家酒店以餐食精美而著称。
• Jim is noted for arriving late for work.吉姆上班迟到出了名。

12 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。