美国国家公共电台 NPR Liev Schreiber On The 'Unsafe' Obsession With Celebrity And The Story Of 'Chuck'

 

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Today...

(SOUNDBITE OF BILL CONTI'S "GONNA FLY NOW")

MARTIN: If you are a fan of boxing or blockbusters or both, then I don't need to tell you that that is the theme song to the 1976 film "Rocky," which won several Oscars including Best Picture. It spawned¹ six "Rocky" sequels and made Sylvester Stallone a superstar.

(SOUNDBITE OF BILL CONTI'S "GONNA FLY NOW")

MARTIN: What you may not know is that "Rocky" was based in part on a real person, Chuck Wepner, a heavyweight boxer² and hometown celebrity³ from New Jersey⁴ who was known as the Bayonne Bleeder. Now Wepner gets the star treatment in his own right as the subject of a new feature film called "Chuck" starring Liev Schreiber in the title role.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CHUCK")

LIEV SCHREIBER: (As Chuck Wepner) My name is Chuck Wepner. You don't know me - well, you do know me, but you don't know you know me. Once upon a time, I was the heavyweight champ in New Jersey. They called me the Bayonne Bleeder. I always hated that name, but for some reason it stuck. Hoboken had Sinatra. Bayonne had me.

MARTIN: Chuck tells the story of Wepner's sudden and improbable rise to celebrity after he got a chance to fight the reigning⁵ heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali and lasted all the way into the 15th round, even though he lost. But it also follows his fall from the mountaintop, consumed by cocaine⁶, and you might say an even more addicting⁷ drug, fame.

To hear more about it, I spoke⁸ with the film star, Liev Schreiber. He's a boxing fan himself, and he told me he first got interested in the project when film producer Mike Tolan showed him the screenplay about 10 years ago.

SCHREIBER: But I kind of went on to other things and busied myself with having children and being cast in television shows and in that period of time that went by, I kind of became more and more drawn⁹ to the cautionary tale about celebrity and fame that seemed to be at the heart of Chuck's story. And so when the financing miraculously¹⁰ materialized, I thought, well, yeah, let's do this and let's try to nudge it in this direction.

MARTIN: Which direction is that?

SCHREIBER: I think we live in a sort of celebrity-obsessed culture, and that obsession¹¹ with fame for fame's sake is kind of alarming to me. It feels unsafe, and there was something about Chuck's story that articulated that in a kind of simple, but also entertaining and compelling way.

MARTIN: You know, you've given us a lot to think about here because...

SCHREIBER: (Laughter).

MARTIN: ...There's the thing itself, and then there is how we think about the thing itself.

SCHREIBER: Right.

MARTIN: So let me separate those. OK. So let's start with the boxing side of it. Let me just play a short clip from it. This is where, you know, his big chance in the limelight comes when Don King sets up this improbable fight against Muhammad Ali. And, you know, yes, Chuck is the long shot, but here's a clip from the movie where he's talking about the fight. Here it is.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CHUCK")

SCHREIBER: (As Chuck Wepner) By the 12th round, he'd already closed both my eyes, broke my nose and he still dances circles around me. I didn't care. I was just happy to be in the ring with him. I don't remember much after that. As I'm trying to stay on my feet, I could feel him hit me - no pain just the fud of his fists bone on bone. Boom, boom - stay up Chuck, stay up.

MARTIN: You know, I have to say there were points in this film - I mean, there's blood everywhere. It's not like you kind of shy away from what is brutal¹² about this sport. And yet, it sounds like he's in love. I mean, he's beaten to a pulp¹³, he lost the fight and he's loving it. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SCHREIBER: That's kind of the price of fame. You know? That's the price he's willing to pay, and that's what was so moving to me about him as a character is that at some level, tragic¹⁴ mistake, you know - originally the film was called the Bleeder, which was a title that I really liked because it was evocative in that way, the extent to which this guy would go for attention and for respect and for approval. And I think we can all identify with that, certainly, I can as an actor.

But I think that once you've earned that approval, what it contributes to your life is questionable¹⁵. It's not everybody turns the corner to realize that what they give in this life is infinitely¹⁶ more important than what they take. And I think that Chuck found that one out the hard way.

MARTIN: It also features this theme. It's about his relationship with boxing movies. I mean, Chuck...

SCHREIBER: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...In the film spends a lot of the time in the film re-enacting a scene from the 1962 Anthony Quinn film "Requiem¹⁸ For A Heavyweight" and then bragging¹⁹ about being the real life Rocky, and yet his relationship to the "Rocky" films is actually kind of complicated. What is that about do you think? Is it - are you saying in a way that we get our meaning from the meaning that others ascribe to it?

SCHREIBER: It's a very...

MARTIN: ...It's hard imitating life, imitating art, imitating life. What are you saying here?

SCHREIBER: Yeah. I think you said it beautifully, actually. And that was Philippe Falardeau, the film's director - that was one of the things that he was trying to accomplish by having "Requiem For A Heavyweight" and "Rocky" present as well, that it's not really a boxing movie. It's a boxing movie about boxing movies. It's actually about identity and our desire to be recognized. And, you know, that trip down the rabbit hole we're all willing to make to get approval, to get appreciation²⁰, to get the respect that we're unable to give ourselves.

MARTIN: Before we let you go, I wanted to ask about Chuck. I understand you got to spend some time with him in preparing for this role. I understand that he was disappointed that you didn't actually fight the bear that he...

SCHREIBER: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...That he fights bear - he - to make money - right? - after he - the big fight, he actually would fight bears.

SCHREIBER: He fought Victor a couple of times, I think, and he did it for charity, which is something that we didn't mention in the movie. I think it's important to mention.

MARTIN: OK. That's kind of a relief, but not really. But still...

SCHREIBER: Yeah, right? A little bit. Come on. He fought for Make A Wish, you know?

MARTIN: OK.

SCHREIBER: Anyways he showed up...

MARTIN: He could've washed cars, but that's cool...

SCHREIBER: (Laughter) He showed up at the set, and I - was always a pleasure to have Chuck and Linda at set. I love them both dearly, and makes me a little nervous acting¹⁷ in front of them. But he showed up, thankfully, on a day when I wasn't talking much. I was fighting a bear, and he showed up and brought some friends. And they were all standing²¹ around by the monitor, and I went out to see him. And he was like, (imitating Chuck Wepner) so, Liev, you know when you get in there with the bear, make sure you spin him. You know, and once you spin him, he can't really see you, you know, you get around behind him and he's not going to scratch you or anything.

And I looked at him, and I was like, Chuck, you know, that they're actually not going to let me in the ring with a bear, right? Like, the insurance company would never let the lead actor of a movie get in the ring with a bear? And this just profound look of disappointment came over his face, and I could just see that he had driven all the way from Bayonne with his wife and two friends in the back of a Cadillac expecting to see Ray Donovan fight a bear. And it just - it wasn't going to happen. And he was extraordinarily²² polite, and I know that it took a lot for him to be so nice after finding out I wasn't going to do it.

MARTIN: Liev Schreiber is an actor, writer and director. His latest film "Chuck" is out this week. He's also starting his fifth season as "Ray Donovan" which is on Showtime. He was nice enough to join us from our studios at NPR West in Culver City, Calif. Liev Schreiber, thanks so much for speaking with us.

SCHREIBER: Thanks for having me, Michel.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EYE OF THE TIGER")

SURVIVOR²³: (Singing) Rising up back on the street, did my time, took my chances.

1 spawned   

（鱼、蛙等）大量产（卵）( spawn的过去式和过去分词 )； 大量生产

参考例句：

• The band's album spawned a string of hit singles. 这支乐队的专辑繁衍出一连串走红的单曲唱片。
• The computer industry has spawned a lot of new companies. 由于电脑工业的发展，许多新公司纷纷成立。

2 boxer   

n.制箱者，拳击手

参考例句：

• The boxer gave his opponent a punch on the nose.这个拳击手朝他对手的鼻子上猛击一拳。
• He moved lightly on his toes like a boxer.他像拳击手一样踮着脚轻盈移动。

3 celebrity   

n.名人，名流；著名，名声，名望

参考例句：

• Tom found himself something of a celebrity. 汤姆意识到自己已小有名气了。
• He haunted famous men, hoping to get celebrity for himself. 他常和名人在一起, 希望借此使自己获得名气。

4 jersey   

n.运动衫

参考例句：

• He wears a cotton jersey when he plays football.他穿运动衫踢足球。
• They were dressed alike in blue jersey and knickers.他们穿着一致，都是蓝色的运动衫和灯笼短裤。

5 reigning   

adj.统治的，起支配作用的

参考例句：

• The sky was dark, stars were twinkling high above, night was reigning, and everything was sunk in silken silence. 天很黑，星很繁，夜阑人静。
• Led by Huang Chao, they brought down the reigning house after 300 years' rule. 在黄巢的带领下，他们推翻了统治了三百年的王朝。

6 cocaine   

n.可卡因，古柯碱（用作局部麻醉剂）

参考例句：

• That young man is a cocaine addict.那个年轻人吸食可卡因成瘾。
• Don't have cocaine abusively.不可滥服古柯碱。

7 addicting   

使沉溺（addict的现在分词形式）

参考例句：

• I love salt and vinegar chips. They are very addicting. 我爱盐和醋芯片。他们非常上瘾。
• Leave it to Britney to sing a juicy and addicting song. 布兰妮呈现了一首很刺激也很让人上瘾的歌曲！

8 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

9 drawn   

v.拖，拉，拔出；adj.憔悴的，紧张的

参考例句：

• All the characters in the story are drawn from life.故事中的所有人物都取材于生活。
• Her gaze was drawn irresistibly to the scene outside.她的目光禁不住被外面的风景所吸引。

10 miraculously   

ad.奇迹般地

参考例句：

• He had been miraculously saved from almost certain death. 他奇迹般地从死亡线上获救。
• A schoolboy miraculously survived a 25 000-volt electric shock. 一名男学生在遭受2.5 万伏的电击后奇迹般地活了下来。

11 obsession   

n.困扰，无法摆脱的思想(或情感)

参考例句：

• I was suffering from obsession that my career would be ended.那时的我陷入了我的事业有可能就此终止的困扰当中。
• She would try to forget her obsession with Christopher.她会努力忘记对克里斯托弗的迷恋。

12 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

13 pulp   

n.果肉，纸浆；v.化成纸浆，除去...果肉，制成纸浆

参考例句：

• The pulp of this watermelon is too spongy.这西瓜瓤儿太肉了。
• The company manufactures pulp and paper products.这个公司制造纸浆和纸产品。

14 tragic   

adj.悲剧的，悲剧性的，悲惨的

参考例句：

• The effect of the pollution on the beaches is absolutely tragic.污染海滩后果可悲。
• Charles was a man doomed to tragic issues.查理是个注定不得善终的人。

15 questionable   

adj.可疑的，有问题的

参考例句：

• There are still a few questionable points in the case.这个案件还有几个疑点。
• Your argument is based on a set of questionable assumptions.你的论证建立在一套有问题的假设上。

16 infinitely   

adv.无限地，无穷地

参考例句：

• There is an infinitely bright future ahead of us.我们有无限光明的前途。
• The universe is infinitely large.宇宙是无限大的。

17 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

18 requiem   

n.安魂曲，安灵曲

参考例句：

• I will sing a requiem for the land walkers.我会给陆地上走的人唱首安魂曲。
• The Requiem is on the list for today's concert.《安魂曲》是这次音乐会的演出曲目之一。

19 bragging   

v.自夸，吹嘘( brag的现在分词 )；大话

参考例句：

• He's always bragging about his prowess as a cricketer. 他总是吹嘘自己板球水平高超。 来自辞典例句
• Now you're bragging, darling. You know you don't need to brag. 这就是夸口，亲爱的。你明知道你不必吹。 来自辞典例句

20 appreciation   

n.评价；欣赏；感谢；领会，理解；价格上涨

参考例句：

• I would like to express my appreciation and thanks to you all.我想对你们所有人表达我的感激和谢意。
• I'll be sending them a donation in appreciation of their help.我将送给他们一笔捐款以感谢他们的帮助。

21 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

22 extraordinarily   

adv.格外地；极端地

参考例句：

• She is an extraordinarily beautiful girl.她是个美丽非凡的姑娘。
• The sea was extraordinarily calm that morning.那天清晨，大海出奇地宁静。

23 survivor   

n.生存者，残存者，幸存者

参考例句：

• The sole survivor of the crash was an infant.这次撞车的惟一幸存者是一个婴儿。
• There was only one survivor of the plane crash.这次飞机失事中只有一名幸存者。