美国国家公共电台 NPR 'Game Of Thrones' Producers Venture Down More Controversial Path With 'Confederate'

 

NOEL KING, HOST:

Imagine this - a TV show that sparks intense controversy¹, dozens of opinion pieces and tweets and radio segments without ever having aired, without even a single episode being written yet. That's what happened when HBO announced "Game Of Thrones" creators David Benioff and D.B. Weiss's next TV project. It's called "Confederate." And the premise² is a United States in which the South didn't lose the Civil War, where slavery still exists. This made a lot of people angry.

Benioff and Weiss, who are white, have defended the project, saying the goal of the show is to highlight issues of today, like police brutality⁴ and voter disenfranchisement. The show's also been defended by two executive producers - Nichelle Tramble Spellman and her husband, Malcolm Spellman. They are African-American. Our TV critic Eric Deggans caught up with them this week and asked them about their vision for the show.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)

MALCOLM SPELLMAN: The project is not antebellum imagery. It's not whips. It's not plantations⁵. It's not a celebration or pornography for slavery. And most importantly, it's not an entire nation of slaves.

KING: We wanted to talk to someone who's been down this road before, so we called up mystery writer Ben Winters. He wrote the 2016 book "Underground Airlines," which imagines a United States that never had a Civil War, where slavery is still legal in four U.S. states. Ben, thanks for coming on.

BEN WINTERS: Sure. How you doing?

KING: Good, thanks. Ben, I'm just going to get this out of the way real quick. You are white, correct?

WINTERS: That is right.

KING: All right. And you took on the premise of modern-day slavery in your book. Slavery is a deeply sensitive topic, a hurtful topic. Why write a book, even fiction, about a world where black Americans are still enslaved?

WINTERS: Well, because, you know, in our contemporary society, we are still very much living with the institutions and attitudes that were formed in this country during the time of slavery. When you look at incidents of police brutality in black communities, when you look at incarceration⁶ rates, when you look at housing discrimination and banking⁷ discrimination and everyday discrimination that African-Americans face in this country, all those things are tied up with the long, brutal³ legacy⁸ of slavery. So when I conceived of my book "Underground Airlines," it was very much as a way of thinking about that, a way of using fiction as a means to criticize and analyze⁹ and empathize.

KING: When we talk about empathy, I think it brings up big questions about voice, right? The narrator of your book is Victor. He's a black man, a very conflicted person who works as a slave catcher. He tracks down runaway¹⁰ slaves. Victor, himself, is a former slave. When you were writing the book, when you were thinking about the book, did you wrestle¹¹ with the question of who gets to write in whose voice?

WINTERS: Oh, yeah, I mean, of course. It would be insane not to, not to be aware of that and not to think about that. And the thing is that there is a long and ugly history in this country of white artists representing African-American voices and African-American characters in ways that are stereotypical¹² or sort of coarse or, you know, merely exploitative.

You know, so it was definitely very much my intention when I set out to write the book, and as I worked on the book, to not be one of those books, you know, to be thoughtful and to do my homework, do my research and to make the character not sort of some stereotypical, narrow-minded view of what a black person is like but rather a human exploration of who this specific person is like in this specific world.

KING: What did you think when you saw "Confederate" get this massive pushback without having aired yet, without having been written yet? Were you surprised?

WINTERS: No.

KING: No.

WINTERS: I wasn't surprised. And I don't think that HBO should have been surprised. Like I was saying before, Noel, like, there is this extraordinary history in this country of white artists representing the black experience in ways that have been painful. And so when my book came out, it was greeted with skepticism and wariness¹³ on the part of potential readers. Which, you know, of course, my initial reaction was to sort of get my back up and say, well, you know, well, how dare you? You know, I did all this research. I did all this work. My book is respectful. My book is smart.

But then, you know, you have to go, well, yeah, but there's every reason for people to be cautious and skeptical¹⁴ and wary¹⁵ of work like this. So, you know, I can't speak for their show. I don't know what it's going to be. I don't know exactly what they're doing. But I certainly am not surprised that people said, well, now, wait a second. What's going on here? You know, it is, unfortunately - based on the past, it is a valid¹⁶ response.

KING: I mean, there have been a lot of think pieces written about this show before it has aired. One of them by the author and culture critic Roxane Gay appeared in The New York Times. She mentions your book. She says you have, quote, "an interesting premise." But then she asks, at what cost? Another piece, meanwhile, in The Hollywood Reporter, says "Confederate" could potentially muddle¹⁷ a history that many Americans already don't agree on. Is there - in the larger historical sense - is there a cost here?

WINTERS: Let me stress, again, that I can't defend or explain what this show is because I am not involved with it, and I don't know anything about what their intentions are or what they're doing.

KING: Fair enough.

WINTERS: But I can speak about myself...

KING: Yeah...

WINTERS: ...And my own intentions.

KING: ...Please.

WINTERS: Of course, there is no general American consensus¹⁸ on where we are as a country in terms of the treatment of African-Americans by the greater population and sort of where we've come to in terms of race relations in this country. But I think that it is crucial that artists and authors remain engaged with the questions. And I also think there are a lot of people who don't think about it enough.

You know, part of the pleasure or the sort of retrospective satisfaction of writing a book like this is the idea that there are people in book clubs all around the country, you know, who are picking up my book because it looks interesting because oh, it - a thriller¹⁹ with a high-concept twist. That should be a cool one. And then they end up having a conversation about systemic discrimination and, you know, about the roots of the mass incarceration that we have today. We have a responsibility, as artists, to be part of the cultural conversation, to be part of the political conversation.

KING: That was Ben Winters, author of the book "Underground Airlines." Ben, thanks so much for coming on.

WINTERS: Sure, Noel. Thank you so much.

(SOUNDBITE OF OJR'S "RUNNIN FROM THE LAW")

1 controversy   

n.争论，辩论，争吵

参考例句：

• That is a fact beyond controversy.那是一个无可争论的事实。
• We ran the risk of becoming the butt of every controversy.我们要冒使自己在所有的纷争中都成为众矢之的的风险。

2 premise   

n.前提；v.提论，预述

参考例句：

• Let me premise my argument with a bit of history.让我引述一些史实作为我立论的前提。
• We can deduce a conclusion from the premise.我们可以从这个前提推出结论。

3 brutal   

adj.残忍的，野蛮的，不讲理的

参考例句：

• She has to face the brutal reality.她不得不去面对冷酷的现实。
• They're brutal people behind their civilised veneer.他们表面上温文有礼，骨子里却是野蛮残忍。

4 brutality   

n.野蛮的行为，残忍，野蛮

参考例句：

• The brutality of the crime has appalled the public. 罪行之残暴使公众大为震惊。
• a general who was infamous for his brutality 因残忍而恶名昭彰的将军

5 plantations   

n.种植园，大农场( plantation的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Soon great plantations, supported by slave labor, made some families very wealthy. 不久之后出现了依靠奴隶劳动的大庄园，使一些家庭成了富豪。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件
• Winterborne's contract was completed, and the plantations were deserted. 维恩特波恩的合同完成后，那片林地变得荒废了。 来自辞典例句

6 incarceration   

n.监禁，禁闭；钳闭

参考例句：

• He hadn't changed much in his nearly three years of incarceration. 在将近三年的监狱生活中，他变化不大。 来自辞典例句
• Please, please set it free before it bursts from its long incarceration! 请你，请你将这颗心释放出来吧！否则它会因长期的禁闭而爆裂。 来自辞典例句

7 banking   

n.银行业，银行学，金融业

参考例句：

• John is launching his son on a career in banking.约翰打算让儿子在银行界谋一个新职位。
• He possesses an extensive knowledge of banking.他具有广博的银行业务知识。

8 legacy   

n.遗产，遗赠；先人(或过去)留下的东西

参考例句：

• They are the most precious cultural legacy our forefathers left.它们是我们祖先留下来的最宝贵的文化遗产。
• He thinks the legacy is a gift from the Gods.他认为这笔遗产是天赐之物。

9 analyze   

vt.分析，解析 (=analyse)

参考例句：

• We should analyze the cause and effect of this event.我们应该分析这场事变的因果。
• The teacher tried to analyze the cause of our failure.老师设法分析我们失败的原因。

10 runaway   

n.逃走的人，逃亡，亡命者；adj.逃亡的，逃走的

参考例句：

• The police have not found the runaway to date.警察迄今没抓到逃犯。
• He was praised for bringing up the runaway horse.他勒住了脱缰之马受到了表扬。

11 wrestle   

vi.摔跤，角力；搏斗；全力对付

参考例句：

• He taught his little brother how to wrestle.他教他小弟弟如何摔跤。
• We have to wrestle with difficulties.我们必须同困难作斗争。

12 stereotypical   

n.常规

参考例句：

• Personas should be typical and believable, but not stereotypical. 人物角色应该是典型和可信赖的，但不是一成不变的。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓
• Anything could be stereotypical, so I guess it could be criticism. 任何东西都可以变的老套，所以我猜那就是一种批评。 来自互联网

13 wariness   

n. 注意,小心

参考例句：

• The British public's wariness of opera is an anomaly in Europe. 英国公众对歌剧不大轻易接受的态度在欧洲来说很反常。
• There certainly is a history of wariness about using the R-word. 历史表明绝对应当谨慎使用“衰退”一词。

14 skeptical   

adj.怀疑的，多疑的

参考例句：

• Others here are more skeptical about the chances for justice being done.这里的其他人更为怀疑正义能否得到伸张。
• Her look was skeptical and resigned.她的表情是将信将疑而又无可奈何。

15 wary   

adj.谨慎的，机警的，小心的

参考例句：

• He is wary of telling secrets to others.他谨防向他人泄露秘密。
• Paula frowned,suddenly wary.宝拉皱了皱眉头，突然警惕起来。

16 valid   

adj.有确实根据的；有效的；正当的，合法的

参考例句：

• His claim to own the house is valid.他主张对此屋的所有权有效。
• Do you have valid reasons for your absence?你的缺席有正当理由吗？

17 muddle   

n.困惑，混浊状态；vt.使混乱，使糊涂，使惊呆；vi.胡乱应付，混乱

参考例句：

• Everything in the room was in a muddle.房间里每一件东西都是乱七八糟的。
• Don't work in a rush and get into a muddle.克服忙乱现象。

18 consensus   

n.(意见等的)一致，一致同意，共识

参考例句：

• Can we reach a consensus on this issue?我们能在这个问题上取得一致意见吗？
• What is the consensus of opinion at the afternoon meeting?下午会议上一致的意见是什么？

19 thriller   

n.惊险片，恐怖片

参考例句：

• He began by writing a thriller.That book sold a million copies.他是写惊险小说起家的。那本书卖了一百万册。
• I always take a thriller to read on the train.我乘火车时，总带一本惊险小说看。