美国国家公共电台 NPR Nixon White House Counsel John Dean Sees Uphill Climb For Trump In Leaks Fight

 

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

President Trump¹ is pressuring the Justice Department to go after those who leak classified information. And he is certainly not the first president to be annoyed by leaks. In the '80s, Ronald Reagan even joked about his frustration².

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

RONALD REAGAN: I was going to have an opening statement, but I decided³ that what I was going to say I wanted to get a lot of attention. So I'm going to wait and leak it.

GREENE: But to understand the modern war between president and leaker, you really have to go back to President Richard Nixon and Daniel Ellsberg, a military analyst⁴ who leaked a secret Pentagon analysis about U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

They came to be known as the Pentagon Papers. President Nixon learned they had been leaked to The New York Times from then-White House adviser⁵ Alexander Haig. This conversation between the two of them was released years later.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

RICHARD NIXON: Did we know this was coming out?

ALEXANDER HAIG: No we did not, sir.

NIXON: Yeah.

HAIG: There are just a few copies of this...

NIXON: Well, what about the...

HAIG: ...Full-volume report.

NIXON: But what about the - let me ask you this though, what about the - what about Laird? What's he going to do about it? Is he...

HAIG: Well, I...

NIXON: Now, I'd just start right at the top and fire some people. I mean, whoever - whatever department it came out of, I'd fire the top guy.

CHANG: The war on leaks proved costly⁶ for Nixon. In fact, it led to the Watergate scandal, at least according to our next guest.

GREENE: Yeah, John Dean was White House counsel to President Nixon. He pled guilty to his role in the Watergate cover-up. I asked him whether the leaks from the Trump administration are different from what we've seen in the past.

JOHN DEAN: There had been national security leaks out of the Trump administration, and Nixon dealt primarily with national security leaks. What happened is that some of the positions he was contemplating⁷ in Vietnam often ended up on the front page of either The New York Times or The Washington Post. And that would preclude⁸ his options. And that, he felt, was quite unfair and not good for the country. Trump's leaks, some have come through the national security community, but they've been regarding his attitudes towards the national security community, which has not been a particularly healthy relationship.

GREENE: You're saying the difference is perhaps more personal - that under Nixon's time, it was exposing decisions about national security that were being discussed. In this case, this is revealing, like, the president's personal views about people who are working for him.

DEAN: Well, for example, no better example are the heads of state conversations.

GREENE: Oh, these are the full transcripts⁹ of Trump's calls with world leaders that were given to reporters, yeah.

DEAN: That's an extraordinary national security leak and very personal. I think that there is some disagreement with the Trump presidency¹⁰ and Trump's qualifications to be president.

GREENE: You wrote that the law is not really on a president's side. It is tough to prosecute¹¹ the leakers. It's even more difficult to go after the news media using the law. Is there any reason to think that Trump will find more success here?

DEAN: Well, you know, it's interesting. The Bush II administration assembled about a half-a-dozen statutes¹² that kind of built the equivalent of what the United Kingdom has - is an Official Secrets Act. We have never done that. We've considered it and assumed it would not bear up under scrutiny¹³ at the Supreme¹⁴ Court because of the First Amendment¹⁵.

GREENE: So you're talking about cobbled together during the Bush years. And President Obama, you know, as we know, was very active in trying to go after leakers. But there is no firm law in place that makes it easy for any president to target leakers.

DEAN: That is correct. That is correct.

GREENE: You wrote that when your former boss, President Nixon, started going after leakers, that that was the precursor¹⁶ of Watergate. What do you mean by that?

DEAN: Well, he authorized¹⁷, for example, in three different taped, recorded conversations that he was ordering and wanted a break-in at the Brookings Institute.

GREENE: And this, we should say, is a think tank in Washington that some consider to be left-leaning.

DEAN: Yeah. That word got down that break-ins were something the president thought were OK. So that's where the very early origins of the kind of mentality¹⁸ that would result in a Watergate were first formulated¹⁹.

GREENE: Well, yeah, in March, you said you were already hearing echoes of Watergate - that you were seeing this from the Trump administration. Although, you said said it's not quite Watergate 2.0. Is that still your assessment²⁰?

DEAN: I think that is.

GREENE: But why do you make the comparison to Watergate? I mean, it's - has anything nefarious²¹ really been proven when it comes to Trump?

DEAN: Well, there are comparisons because, first of all, Watergate was about influencing an election - the '72 election. The Russiagate (ph), for purposes of this conversation, it too has to do with influencing an election. The echoes I hear are - there is clearly a cover-up in the White House. If you did not want to have all this suspicion about what they're doing, you'd have everybody who was involved come into a room and say, OK, I want sworn affidavits²². I don't want to have this hanging over my administration, and I want it done yesterday.

Well, that's exactly the opposite of what they're doing. So this is very similar to the pattern in Watergate. The firing of Comey, to ask him to stop the investigation²³ of Flynn, was not unlike Nixon sending the CIA over to the FBI to get them to cut off the investigation. They're echoes. And during Watergate, we wrote what you shouldn't do. We wrote the book on it. And Trump doesn't even seem to know it happened.

GREENE: This president, President Trump, is maintaining that this is a witch hunt and that there's absolutely nothing to find here.

DEAN: Well, we'll see. A very sophisticated investigator²⁴ in Bob Mueller I don't think would be wasting his time if nothing was there.

GREENE: You famously told Richard Nixon that the Watergate break-in and the cover-up was a cancer on the presidency. Do you think conversations like that are happening right now inside this White House - aides talking to President Trump about what it all means that this is swirling²⁵?

DEAN: You know, there has been a change in tone in the last few days. They're not quite as aggressive in trying to discredit²⁶ the investigation. Maybe they've figured out that rather than trying to fight everything, to try to get the investigation over.

GREENE: Is that a lesson you wish you had learned?

DEAN: I tried the same thing - to get it over. And it led to the cover-up of the cover-up, which went on for another year-plus.

GREENE: Which I guess didn't end the way you wanted it to?

DEAN: No, it did not (laughter).

GREENE: John Dean was counsel in the White House to former President Richard Nixon. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

DEAN: Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF CHRISTIAN SCOTT ATUNDE ADJUAH'S "DESIRE AND THE BURNING GIRL")

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 frustration   

n.挫折，失败，失效，落空

参考例句：

• He had to fight back tears of frustration.他不得不强忍住失意的泪水。
• He beat his hands on the steering wheel in frustration.他沮丧地用手打了几下方向盘。

3 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

4 analyst   

n.分析家，化验员；心理分析学家

参考例句：

• What can you contribute to the position of a market analyst?你有什么技能可有助于市场分析员的职务？
• The analyst is required to interpolate values between standards.分析人员需要在这些标准中插入一些值。

5 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

6 costly   

adj.昂贵的，价值高的，豪华的

参考例句：

• It must be very costly to keep up a house like this.维修这么一幢房子一定很昂贵。
• This dictionary is very useful,only it is a bit costly.这本词典很有用，左不过贵了些。

7 contemplating   

深思，细想，仔细考虑( contemplate的现在分词 )； 注视，凝视； 考虑接受（发生某事的可能性）； 深思熟虑，沉思，苦思冥想

参考例句：

• You're too young to be contemplating retirement. 你考虑退休还太年轻。
• She stood contemplating the painting. 她站在那儿凝视那幅图画。

8 preclude   

vt.阻止，排除，防止；妨碍

参考例句：

• We try to preclude any possibility of misunderstanding.我们努力排除任何误解的可能性。
• My present finances preclude the possibility of buying a car.按我目前的财务状况我是不可能买车的。

9 transcripts   

n.抄本（ transcript的名词复数 ）；转写本；文字本；副本

参考例句：

• Like mRNA, both tRNA and rRNA are transcripts of chromosomal DNA. tRNA及rRNA同mRNA一样，都是染色体DNA的转录产物。 来自辞典例句
• You can't take the transfer students'exam without your transcripts. 没有成绩证明书，你就不能参加转学考试。 来自辞典例句

10 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

11 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

12 statutes   

成文法( statute的名词复数 )； 法令； 法规； 章程

参考例句：

• The numerous existing statutes are complicated and poorly coordinated. 目前繁多的法令既十分复杂又缺乏快调。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Each agency is also restricted by the particular statutes governing its activities. 各个机构的行为也受具体法令限制。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

13 scrutiny   

n.详细检查，仔细观察

参考例句：

• His work looks all right,but it will not bear scrutiny.他的工作似乎很好，但是经不起仔细检查。
• Few wives in their forties can weather such a scrutiny.很少年过四十的妻子经得起这么仔细的观察。

14 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

15 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

16 precursor   

n.先驱者；前辈；前任；预兆；先兆

参考例句：

• Error is often the precursor of what is correct.错误常常是正确的先导。
• He said that the deal should not be seen as a precursor to a merger.他说该笔交易不应该被看作是合并的前兆。

17 authorized   

a.委任的，许可的

参考例句：

• An administrative order is valid if authorized by a statute.如果一个行政命令得到一个法规的认可那么这个命令就是有效的。

18 mentality   

n.心理，思想，脑力

参考例句：

• He has many years'experience of the criminal mentality.他研究犯罪心理有多年经验。
• Running a business requires a very different mentality from being a salaried employee.经营企业所要求具备的心态和上班族的心态截然不同。

19 formulated   

v.构想出( formulate的过去式和过去分词 )；规划；确切地阐述；用公式表示

参考例句：

• He claims that the writer never consciously formulated his own theoretical position. 他声称该作家从未有意识地阐明他自己的理论见解。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• This idea can be formulated in two different ways. 这个意思可以有两种说法。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

20 assessment   

n.评价；评估；对财产的估价，被估定的金额

参考例句：

• This is a very perceptive assessment of the situation.这是一个对该情况的极富洞察力的评价。
• What is your assessment of the situation?你对时局的看法如何？

21 nefarious   

adj.恶毒的，极坏的

参考例句：

• My father believes you all have a nefarious purpose here.我父亲认为你们都有邪恶的目的。
• He was universally feared because of his many nefarious deeds.因为他干了许多罪恶的勾当，所以人人都惧怕他。

22 affidavits   

n.宣誓书，（经陈述者宣誓在法律上可采作证据的）书面陈述( affidavit的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The woman offered written affidavits proving that she was the widow of Pancho Villa. 这女人提供书面证书，证明自己是庞科·比亚的遗孀。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The appeal was adjourned for affidavits to be obtained. 为获得宣誓证明书，上诉被推迟。 来自口语例句

23 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

24 investigator   

n.研究者，调查者，审查者

参考例句：

• He was a special investigator for the FBI.他是联邦调查局的特别调查员。
• The investigator was able to deduce the crime and find the criminal.调查者能够推出犯罪过程并锁定罪犯。

25 swirling   

v.旋转，打旋( swirl的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Snowflakes were swirling in the air. 天空飘洒着雪花。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• She smiled, swirling the wine in her glass. 她微笑着，旋动着杯子里的葡萄酒。 来自辞典例句

26 discredit   

vt.使不可置信；n.丧失信义；不信，怀疑

参考例句：

• Their behaviour has bought discredit on English football.他们的行为败坏了英国足球运动的声誉。
• They no longer try to discredit the technology itself.他们不再试图怀疑这种技术本身。