美国国家公共电台 NPR In 'She Wants It,' Jill Soloway Gets Transparent About Their Life And Work

 

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, HOST:

Jill Soloway is the Emmy and Golden Globe Award-winning creator of the show "Transparent¹" and also the co-creator and director of the show "I Love Dick." Their new memoir² is called "She Wants It." And we'll note right away that is not their preferred pronoun.

JILL SOLOWAY: You know, when I sold the book, I actually didn't identify as queer or even nonbinary. So towards the end, I - you know, I - think I asked my editor, do I need to change it to they want it or we want it or she wanted it? - any of these things.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But the title stayed. And "She Wants It" became a memoir about family, about creating "Transparent" and about coming into their identity. Jill Soloway joins us now from our studios in New York. Welcome.

SOLOWAY: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You began writing the script for "Transparent" after you got a phone call from your own parent. Can you tell us the story?

SOLOWAY: Sure, yeah. I was just working in Hollywood, kind of banging my head against the glass ceiling. I had had a whole bunch of success, you know, I guess, on paper working on really fantastic shows like "Six Feet Under" and "Grey's Anatomy³" - had just gotten a film into Sundance and was starting to think of myself as a director but feeling very, like, you know, crawling towards this goal in this very maybe way. I wasn't sure if I was ever going to, quote, unquote, "make it." And it was just a regular morning, got a phone call. My parent called me. And we were talking about something else. And within that phone call, my parent came out as trans. And I think that was, like, a huge lightning bolt that really kind of shattered my reality for a little while. But also, there was this moment where my thought was, oh, this is the show you're going to write.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Your parent's transition was also kind of a precipitating⁴ event in your life as you were creating "Transparent." You also began to question your own gender⁵ and sexual identity.

SOLOWAY: Yeah. Growing up in this sort of typical, Jewish, upper-middle-class family, my sister had come out as gay. And I guess there was some reason that I thought in my head, OK, she's the gay one, and I'm the straight one. Like, let's just be quote, unquote, "normal." And then when my parent came out, I started to just kind of instantly feel in some ways that now I had this genetic⁶ legacy⁷ of queerness and even of trans-ness and that not only would it not be odd if I started to explore the idea of my own queerness but that, in fact, it would be weird⁸ if I didn't. And then from there, I think a couple of years later, the idea of like, wait a minute. I also may not need to identify as a woman. Meeting so many nonbinary people in the world of "Transparent" and literally⁹ just looking at people who didn't necessarily see themselves as male or female but somehow both and neither and either in every moment - it seemed like a really comfortable place to live.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You are an outspoken¹⁰ feminist¹¹. And you write about being in rooms in Hollywood where it was just you and 50 men and how no one would give you a chance to direct. They kept telling you that you weren't ready. What was it like to try to find success in Hollywood for you?

SOLOWAY: I wasn't experiencing it traumatically. I was sort of going, yeah. I'm not ready. They're right. There's something I don't know yet. You know, I don't really know enough about cinematography or lenses, so they're probably right. I should probably learn. I didn't understand just the depth of the ways in which white, cis men will always lean towards hiring other white, cis men because they're ending up unconsciously protecting their own privilege. But I am working with Time's Up, with an organization called 50/50 by 2020. So we're specifically writing this narrative¹² within people in Hollywood to say that women, people of color, queer people, trans people, disabled people and other other-ized people are all suffering from the same problem, which is that patriarchy and white supremacy¹³ have a hold on storytelling. And other people want their chance.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I want to talk about "Transparent." You're very open in your book about your decision to cast Jeffrey Tambor, who is not a transgender woman, in the role of Maura in "Transparent." Can you talk a little bit about that decision? Because it received a lot of criticism at the time.

SOLOWAY: Yeah. Well, I was really ignorant about trans politics. I guess, first, before I unpack¹⁴ everything that happened, I always want to say that Jeffrey Tambor's portrayal¹⁵ of Maura was absolutely astonishing and beautiful. And Jeffrey's a fantastic actor. But also, I was making a huge mistake around trans politics by having a cis man play a trans woman because, for trans women, they are being accused by people of, quote, unquote, "being men dressing¹⁶ up as women." That's what makes trans women so vulnerable in public. So having even Jeffrey Tambor dressing up as a trans woman may have translated to people who weren't in the know as this is what trans women are, men dressing up as women. So not only was it a problem with casting. It really was a very, very, very dangerous, dangerous thing for trans women.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: You'd make a different decision now in casting?

SOLOWAY: You know, people ask me that question. I think time-machine questions are really odd because I couldn't go back because the world has changed so much. And when I was making "Transparent," I myself really didn't understand my own parent's trans-ness yet. And I still had so much of my parent's image in my mind of when she was presenting as a cis male that it didn't even occur to me to cast a trans woman. So I think, you know, it is what it was. And what it was was the show it was with Jeffrey in it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: "Transparent" star Jeffrey Tambor was accused by a former crew member and a member of the cast of sexual harassment¹⁷. Were those allegations a surprise to you?

SOLOWAY: Yeah. They were.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: A lot of focus has been on what happened there. And we've had so much conversation since those allegations happened about believing people who say they've been harassed¹⁸ or assaulted. And after the initial allegations, you were really worried about the effect on the show. And you wrote, I knew it was over for Jeffrey. And that meant Maura, the show, our TV family, my own family, my parent's reputation, everything. And you acknowledged that one of the accusers was upset about that reaction. I know you don't like to go into a time machine. But what did you learn from that?

SOLOWAY: Yeah. I - it was so interesting because, you know, I was with the people of Time's Up and agitating¹⁹ for this notion of - you know, one of the things, you know, that I wrote on a Post-it is - I was, like, saying, what do we want right now in this moment? I wrote, you know, unlock all NDAs. NDA stands for nondisclosure agreements. I felt that what Hollywood really needed was to make an accounting²⁰ of how much money had been spent to put tape over women's mouths. And then I was faced with this instance on our show where some trans women wanted to tell their story. And I was confronted, I think, with my own trans misogyny, where I didn't immediately say to Van and Trace, let's stand up and tell your story.

Instead, I went a little bit into protection mode and, as you said, thought about the show and thought about everybody's financial earnings²¹. I thought about what the world would think of a show like "Transparent" if it was connected with this reckoning. What I needed to recognize - but it took me a minute - was the heroism²² of both Trace and Van for taking their stories and being willing to say them out loud and, in many ways, sacrifice themselves. In retrospect²³, yeah, I would like a time machine in that one.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What's your relationship with Tambor now?

SOLOWAY: We haven't spoken in a little while.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: This is going to keep happening, right? Friends, artists, people we admire are going to come under scrutiny²⁴. And it will be painful for their friends and their colleagues. And I wonder if you have advice now for people who are in the situation you were in.

SOLOWAY: For me, this is a time for emotional tenderness towards everyone, especially towards the victims who are willing to sacrifice. Again, it's a very sacrificial act. And in terms of the men and the people who are being accused, I think it's really about men deeply, deeply, deeply spending a lot of time and energy trying to understand how patriarchy protects their privilege and thinking of actual ways and tactics that they can take to begin to make up for the harm they've caused before they ask to come back. That doesn't mean we don't treat them with tenderness and love.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Does that mean the same for Jeffrey Tambor for you?

SOLOWAY: Of course. I mean, Jeffrey Tambor is a member of my family. I never want to put the protection of Jeffrey Tambor's career over the protection of Trace Lysette's career and Van Barnes' career. And I think that's what happens is, as a culture, we're naturally patriarchal. So we naturally go, well, what about him? And I think there are a lot of straight, white, cis men who have had positions of power. And their expectation to continue in that power for the rest of their lives is part of what I think has them unconsciously demanding that they place their pain first before everybody else's.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Jill Soloway, thank you so much for your honesty. Their memoir is called "She Wants It."

SOLOWAY: Thank you.

1 transparent   

adj.明显的，无疑的；透明的

参考例句：

• The water is so transparent that we can see the fishes swimming.水清澈透明，可以看到鱼儿游来游去。
• The window glass is transparent.窗玻璃是透明的。

2 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

3 anatomy   

n.解剖学，解剖；功能，结构，组织

参考例句：

• He found out a great deal about the anatomy of animals.在动物解剖学方面，他有过许多发现。
• The hurricane's anatomy was powerful and complex.对飓风的剖析是一项庞大而复杂的工作。

4 precipitating   

adj.急落的，猛冲的v.（突如其来地）使发生( precipitate的现在分词 )；促成；猛然摔下；使沉淀

参考例句：

• Precipitating electrode plate is a key part in electrostatic precipitation equipment. 静电收尘板是静电收尘设备中的关键部件。 来自互联网
• The precipitation bond adopts a sloped tube to enhance the precipitating efficiency. 沉淀池采用斜管，提高了沉降效率。 来自互联网

5 gender   

n.（生理上的）性，（名词、代词等的）性

参考例句：

• French differs from English in having gender for all nouns.法语不同于英语，所有的名词都有性。
• Women are sometimes denied opportunities solely because of their gender.妇女有时仅仅因为性别而无法获得种种机会。

6 genetic   

adj.遗传的，遗传学的

参考例句：

• It's very difficult to treat genetic diseases.遗传性疾病治疗起来很困难。
• Each daughter cell can receive a full complement of the genetic information.每个子细胞可以收到遗传信息的一个完全补偿物。

7 legacy   

n.遗产，遗赠；先人(或过去)留下的东西

参考例句：

• They are the most precious cultural legacy our forefathers left.它们是我们祖先留下来的最宝贵的文化遗产。
• He thinks the legacy is a gift from the Gods.他认为这笔遗产是天赐之物。

8 weird   

adj.古怪的，离奇的；怪诞的，神秘而可怕的

参考例句：

• From his weird behaviour,he seems a bit of an oddity.从他不寻常的行为看来，他好像有点怪。
• His weird clothes really gas me.他的怪衣裳简直笑死人。

9 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

10 outspoken   

adj.直言无讳的，坦率的，坦白无隐的

参考例句：

• He was outspoken in his criticism.他在批评中直言不讳。
• She is an outspoken critic of the school system in this city.她是这座城市里学校制度的坦率的批评者。

11 feminist   

adj.主张男女平等的，女权主义的

参考例句：

• She followed the feminist movement.她支持女权运动。
• From then on,feminist studies on literature boomed.从那时起，男女平等受教育的现象开始迅速兴起。

12 narrative   

n.叙述，故事；adj.叙事的，故事体的

参考例句：

• He was a writer of great narrative power.他是一位颇有记述能力的作家。
• Neither author was very strong on narrative.两个作者都不是很善于讲故事。

13 supremacy   

n.至上；至高权力

参考例句：

• No one could challenge her supremacy in gymnastics.她是最优秀的体操运动员，无人能胜过她。
• Theoretically,she holds supremacy as the head of the state.从理论上说，她作为国家的最高元首拥有至高无上的权力。

14 unpack   

vt.打开包裹（或行李），卸货

参考例句：

• I must unpack before dinner.我得在饭前把行李打开。
• She said she would unpack the items later.她说以后再把箱子里的东西拿出来。

15 portrayal   

n.饰演；描画

参考例句：

• His novel is a vivid portrayal of life in a mining community.他的小说生动地描绘了矿区的生活。
• The portrayal of the characters in the novel is lifelike.该书中的人物写得有血有肉。

16 dressing   

n.(食物)调料；包扎伤口的用品，敷料

参考例句：

• Don't spend such a lot of time in dressing yourself.别花那么多时间来打扮自己。
• The children enjoy dressing up in mother's old clothes.孩子们喜欢穿上妈妈旧时的衣服玩。

17 harassment   

n.骚扰，扰乱，烦恼，烦乱

参考例句：

• She often got telephone harassment at night these days.这些天她经常在夜晚受到电话骚扰。
• The company prohibits any form of harassment.公司禁止任何形式的骚扰行为。

18 harassed   

adj. 疲倦的，厌烦的 动词harass的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• He has complained of being harassed by the police. 他投诉受到警方侵扰。
• harassed mothers with their children 带着孩子的疲惫不堪的母亲们

19 agitating   

搅动( agitate的现在分词 )； 激怒； 使焦虑不安； （尤指为法律、社会状况的改变而）激烈争论

参考例句：

• political groups agitating for social change 鼓吹社会变革的政治团体
• They are agitating to assert autonomy. 他们正在鼓吹实行自治。

20 accounting   

n.会计，会计学，借贷对照表

参考例句：

• A job fell vacant in the accounting department.财会部出现了一个空缺。
• There's an accounting error in this entry.这笔账目里有差错。

21 earnings   

n.工资收人；利润，利益，所得

参考例句：

• That old man lives on the earnings of his daughter.那个老人靠他女儿的收入维持生活。
• Last year there was a 20% decrease in his earnings.去年他的收入减少了20%。

22 heroism   

n.大无畏精神，英勇

参考例句：

• He received a medal for his heroism.他由于英勇而获得一枚奖章。
• Stories of his heroism resounded through the country.他的英雄故事传遍全国。

23 retrospect   

n.回顾，追溯；v.回顾，回想，追溯

参考例句：

• One's school life seems happier in retrospect than in reality.学校生活回忆起来显得比实际上要快乐。
• In retrospect,it's easy to see why we were wrong.回顾过去就很容易明白我们的错处了。

24 scrutiny   

n.详细检查，仔细观察

参考例句：

• His work looks all right,but it will not bear scrutiny.他的工作似乎很好，但是经不起仔细检查。
• Few wives in their forties can weather such a scrutiny.很少年过四十的妻子经得起这么仔细的观察。