美国国家公共电台 NPR Politics, Facts And Civility: A Lesson In Engaging In Discourse

 

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

And once again, we are broadcasting today from WHYY in Philadelphia. That is where we were when we got the terrible news of the shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh this morning. And this in a week when two people were killed in Kentucky, apparently¹ because of their race. And pipe bombs were sent to prominent figures, apparently because of their political views. But even before those awful events, we were hearing people across Pennsylvania tell us they are frustrated² with the tone of this country's public discourse³, the lack of civility. They told us they hoped for more unity⁴. And that is a message that might have special resonance⁵ in Gettysburg, the site of an epic⁶ Civil War battle in 1863, one of this country's bloodiest⁷, where more than 50,000 Americans were injured or killed over the course of three days.

But now, in 2018, a group of residents there have been meeting up in an historic church to practice what others preach, bringing people of different political views together. It's called Politics, Facts and Civility. Democrat⁸ Kerr Thompson, a former college professor, founded the group in 2017. Darcy Maier, also a Democrat, joined the group through her friendship with Thompson. And Republican Chad Collie is also a member, and he told me why he got involved.

CHAD COLLIE: In 2016, in previous years before that, was very politically involved. I was vice⁹ chairman of the Republican Party here locally. During the 2016 campaign, I saw a lot of incivility, a lot of anger, a lot of resentment¹⁰ and saw that coming to a boiling point in many ways. And it encouraged me to stop and think about what was going on in the nation. And so I resigned from that and made a vow¹¹ to myself to get more involved in the community and talking to people who were on the other side of the aisle¹².

MARTIN: It sounds to me like this was something that was in you, like a need that you had. It's interesting that there are a number of national political figures who've been calling for something like this like John Kasich in Ohio. I know maybe Joe Biden you could make the same argument.

COLLIE: Yeah. And Tom Ridge¹³ was just here in Pennsylvania.

MARTIN: Former governor of Pennsylvania, former secretary of Homeland Security. But you - it sounds like that was something that was kind of in you.

COLLIE: It was.

MARTIN: And thankfully, Kerr came up with a structure for that. Darcy, what about you? Is this something that was kind of a hunger within you?

DARCY MAIER: No, it wasn't.

MARTIN: Really?

MAIER: I have always been a pretty staunch Democrat. I - that's where I've pretty much come down on the left on most things, call myself a progressive. I never really thought about how important it was to bridge the divide until I got involved. I think that realizing that there is valid¹⁴ points to be made on both sides and that there is a balance that we can find is - has just been a real eye-opening experience for me.

MARTIN: Kerr, what did you envision when you started this group? Like, what were you hoping to accomplish?

KERR THOMPSON: I was hoping that we could come to understand each other more. And I am very convinced, as Darcy just said, that there are valid points on all sides. Like Darcy, I am a very blue, blue voter. But I think that red voters have valid points, that it will enrich all of us if we can listen to each other. It's sort of like the story of the blind men and the elephant, which I don't know if you're familiar with Philip Tetlock's book "Expert Political Judgment¹⁵" in which he actually tests the theory that the more you investigate various points of view, the more likely you are to be correct in predicting what will happen in the future, for example.

MARTIN: So, Darcy, not that you were saying I don't want to talk to those people, meaning Chad...

MAIER: (Laughter).

MARTIN: ...But you were not as hungry for this experience as others were. What made you finally decide to come?

MAIER: Well, it really was Kerr's invitation and Kerr's encouragement that got me to come to the group. And then it was the surprise at the civility of the conversation that made me stay. I tend to be a fairly quiet person who doesn't express myself very well in a group situation. And so I don't like the idea of going into a place where there's going to be arguing and fighting and I feel like I'm going to just shut down. I will just shut down. So this kind of environment where everybody is expected to have something to say really helped to me, and knowing that people were not going to argue with me or shut me down.

MARTIN: Chad, here's where I have to impose upon our new friendship and put you on the spot.

COLLIE: Sure.

MARTIN: Because for a lot of people, I think on the left but also a lot of people who are just living their lives, the big elephant in the room is the current president and the way he deals with people.

COLLIE: Right.

MARTIN: For a lot of people, he is the definition of incivility. I mean, it's like, how can you say you support civility in public discourse and still support this president? Because for some people, like, this this latest report about the transgender community - right? - saying that they want to change the law so that they won't exist. And people are saying, wait a minute, you're trying to tell me I don't exist, but I support the tax cut. Like, that's OK. You know I mean? So for some people, they just can't square that. How do you even - how do you answer that?

COLLIE: Well, I would just begin by saying that I was also concerned with Trump¹⁶'s incivility during the campaign specifically. And some of the things he's said since then have been very uncivil. Every president that we've ever had and has had pros¹⁷ and cons¹⁸. And if I was able to talk to President Trump today, I would challenge him on that. And I would encourage him to be more civil, especially on Twitter. But with that said, you know, with every president, there are strengths and there are weaknesses. And I would consider that one of his definite weaknesses. It's one of the reasons that I try to speak up more for civility because I think everyone should have influence, including the president of the United States. I think his tone has changed some. I think some of his policies, some of the things that have been enacted¹⁹ have been very good for the country. But I think that's something that he specifically has to work on himself, and I'm not afraid to say that.

MARTIN: Darcy, what about you? Does that - how does that sit with you?

MAIER: What Chad just said?

MARTIN: Yeah.

MAIER: Well, Chad and I definitely have differences. (Laughter) We talk about that quite a bit. I do not obviously support President Trump because, as I already told you, I'm blue. I'm progressive. He's - I don't support his policies. And I don't support what I see as his moral shortcomings. I don't know that Chad would go so far as to say that his incivility is a moral shortcoming, but I - that's how I feel about it. So Chad and I have many very civil discussions. And we are very different. We come down on very different sides on a lot of issues.

MARTIN: And what makes - what helps you to do that? Is it because you both live here and you're going to see each other at the grocery store?

MAIER: No.

MARTIN: Is it because you just like each other now or?

MAIER: I've never run into him at the grocery store.

(LAUGHTER)

MARTIN: What helps you to do that?

MAIER: It's because we both have a commitment to listening. And when we sit down at the table with each other, we come with an open mind, really wanting to know what the other person thinks about an issue and not trying to win the argument. We know that we're not going to change each other's opinions on anything, and that's not our goal. Our goal is really curiosity and an open heart.

MARTIN: What advice does each of you have for people as we head into the home stretch of this election year?

THOMPSON: My first advice to people would be vote. I think we need to come to realize that we have started thinking of politics as win-lose or life in general as win-lose - that I have to beat you to do well. And actually, where we have had the most progress and civilization is when we have learned to work together to everyone's benefit.

MARTIN: I wonder if this work that you're doing here has special resonance in part because you are in Gettysburg, which was the scene of so much carnage earlier in our history. And does that, in a way, provide a counterpoint when you think about how many lost their lives here when this country was pulled apart and you're thinking, well, OK, what do you think?

THOMPSON: It could be. I grew up in the South. And three of my great uncles fought in the war. Two of them died. And I wonder when they came home not knowing whether the house was still - the one came home not knowing when the house was still standing²⁰, I wondered if they looked at all that had happened and they remembered that Lincoln had tried to offer an out to free the slaves, buying them back one state at a time, as was done in many Latin American countries - and they thought, good grief, were we not stupid?

MAIER: I think that when we think about the fact that we're meeting at the church called the Prince of Peace, which was built as a memorial of reconciliation²¹ between the North and the South after the Civil War, I think that that says a lot about what our community stands for and the work that we're trying to do.

MARTIN: Chad, does it have some special meaning for you that this work is taking place in Gettysburg? I don't know where you were born and raised, but does it provide a bit of resonance for the work you're trying to accomplish?

COLLIE: I often refer to myself as a rebel in Yankee territory. And I say that, you know, tongue-in-cheek. But it certainly does make a difference. And I've said, you know, and I've - in talking with Kerr and Darcy, I said, if we can't talk about civility in Gettysburg, then where can we? And so I happen to carry around oftentimes a Civil War bullet with me because that reminds me that it wasn't just about political strategies. It was about the bullets that tore through the blood, bone and flesh of fellow Americans. And I'm also not afraid to say and have confirmed this with many people that if we don't focus more on civility in this day and time, we're moving closer and closer toward another Civil War if we're not careful.

Some of the headlines that we see across the country - and a lot of that depends on whether you focus on the positives or focus on the negatives - but there are a lot of really bad stories across the country. And that's why it's been encouraging to be a part of this group and to kind of resonate the message of civility because it is very, very important, especially in this day and time. We have a chance to make a huge difference. And if we don't take that opportunity, then we've really missed out.

MARTIN: Well, Chad Collie, Darcy Maier and Kerr Thompson, they are members of the group Politics, Facts and Civility. We met up with them at Prince of Peace Episcopal Church in Gettysburg, Penn.

1 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

2 frustrated   

adj.挫败的，失意的，泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的过去式和过去分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's very easy to get frustrated in this job. 这个工作很容易令人懊恼。
• The bad weather frustrated all our hopes of going out. 恶劣的天气破坏了我们出行的愿望。 来自《简明英汉词典》

3 discourse   

n.论文，演说；谈话；话语；vi.讲述，著述

参考例句：

• We'll discourse on the subject tonight.我们今晚要谈论这个问题。
• He fell into discourse with the customers who were drinking at the counter.他和站在柜台旁的酒客谈了起来。

4 unity   

n.团结，联合，统一；和睦，协调

参考例句：

• When we speak of unity,we do not mean unprincipled peace.所谓团结，并非一团和气。
• We must strengthen our unity in the face of powerful enemies.大敌当前，我们必须加强团结。

5 resonance   

n.洪亮；共鸣；共振

参考例句：

• Playing the piano sets up resonance in those glass ornaments.一弹钢琴那些玻璃饰物就会产生共振。
• The areas under the two resonance envelopes are unequal.两个共振峰下面的面积是不相等的。

6 epic   

n.史诗，叙事诗；adj.史诗般的，壮丽的

参考例句：

• I gave up my epic and wrote this little tale instead.我放弃了写叙事诗，而写了这个小故事。
• They held a banquet of epic proportions.他们举行了盛大的宴会。

7 bloodiest   

adj.血污的( bloody的最高级 )；流血的；屠杀的；残忍的

参考例句：

• The Russians were going to suffer their bloodiest defeat of all before Berlin. 俄国人在柏林城下要遭到他们的最惨重的失败。 来自辞典例句
• It was perhaps the bloodiest hour in the history of warfare. 这也许是战争史上血腥味最浓的1个小时。 来自互联网

8 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

9 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

10 resentment   

n.怨愤，忿恨

参考例句：

• All her feelings of resentment just came pouring out.她一股脑儿倾吐出所有的怨恨。
• She cherished a deep resentment under the rose towards her employer.她暗中对她的雇主怀恨在心。

11 vow   

n.誓(言)，誓约；v.起誓，立誓

参考例句：

• My parents are under a vow to go to church every Sunday.我父母许愿，每星期日都去做礼拜。
• I am under a vow to drink no wine.我已立誓戒酒。

12 aisle   

n.（教堂、教室、戏院等里的）过道，通道

参考例句：

• The aisle was crammed with people.过道上挤满了人。
• The girl ushered me along the aisle to my seat.引座小姐带领我沿着通道到我的座位上去。

13 ridge   

n.山脊；鼻梁；分水岭

参考例句：

• We clambered up the hillside to the ridge above.我们沿着山坡费力地爬上了山脊。
• The infantry were advancing to attack the ridge.步兵部队正在向前挺进攻打山脊。

14 valid   

adj.有确实根据的；有效的；正当的，合法的

参考例句：

• His claim to own the house is valid.他主张对此屋的所有权有效。
• Do you have valid reasons for your absence?你的缺席有正当理由吗？

15 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

16 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

17 pros   

abbr.prosecuting 起诉；prosecutor 起诉人；professionals 自由职业者；proscenium （舞台）前部n.赞成的意见( pro的名词复数 )；赞成的理由；抵偿物；交换物

参考例句：

• The pros and cons cancel out. 正反两种意见抵消。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• We should hear all the pros and cons of the matter before we make a decision. 我们在对这事做出决定之前，应该先听取正反两方面的意见。 来自《简明英汉词典》

18 cons   

n.欺骗，骗局( con的名词复数 )v.诈骗，哄骗( con的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• The pros and cons cancel out. 正反两种意见抵消。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》
• We should hear all the pros and cons of the matter before we make a decision. 我们在对这事做出决定之前，应该先听取正反两方面的意见。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 enacted   

制定（法律），通过（法案）( enact的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• legislation enacted by parliament 由议会通过的法律
• Outside in the little lobby another scene was begin enacted. 外面的小休息室里又是另一番景象。 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹

20 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

21 reconciliation   

n.和解，和谐，一致

参考例句：

• He was taken up with the reconciliation of husband and wife.他忙于做夫妻间的调解工作。
• Their handshake appeared to be a gesture of reconciliation.他们的握手似乎是和解的表示。