美国国家公共电台 NPR Rachel Maddow On How Russia's 'Resource Curse' Drove Putin To Election Interference

 

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

If you think Russia's influence in the last presidential election began in 2016, a new book argues that's wrong. In Blowout, journalist Rachel Maddow - yes, that Rachel Maddow, the MSNBC host - traces the rise of oil as a powerful, destructive and lucrative¹ industry to the Russian interference in the last presidential election. One of the ties that binds² it all together is Vladimir Putin. The oil industry generated tons of money for Russia, and Putin used this money to support his vision of making Russia a superpower again, exerting his influence in the region and around the world. Maddow argues he's been playing the long game, and the 2016 election interference, the trolls, the bots, all of it is just one aspect of it.

There are a lot of dots to connect in this story, and here to do that is Rachel Maddow. She's the author of "Blowout: Corrupted³ Democracy, Rogue⁴ State Russia, And The Richest, Most Destructive Industry On Earth." And she's with us now from our bureau in New York. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.

RACHEL MADDOW: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

MARTIN: So, you know, you bring together a lot of different topics here, and it isn't really just Russia. I do have to say that one of the things that this book does is - you say it yourself - it stitches together - I'm reading here - it says it's a thread that wraps its way around the globe from Oklahoma and Texas and Washington, D.C., to London, Kyiv, Siberia, Moscow, Equatorial Guinea, the Alaskan Arctic and to a trove⁵ of Michael Jackson memorabilia, a luxury hotel in Central London, a divorce court in Oklahoma City, a crappy office building offering its workers a free power supply in St. Petersburg, Russia. There's a throughline here, and the throughline is oil.

MADDOW: Yeah. And I did not set out to write a book about oil and gas. I didn't set out to write a book at all, but I was very curious. I found myself putting a lot of focus on my show on what Russia did in 2016. I was really stuck in terms of trying to figure out their motive⁶ force, not just for why they would want to influence our election but for why they would try to do it in that way, why they would throw that kind of very innovative⁷, MacGyver kind of wild punch at us.

And I ended up getting to this issue of oil and gas, and it surprised me as much as I think it might surprise anybody. But I do think that the Russian economy being a mess and being totally dependent on oil and gas does explain some of Russia's weakness. And some of Russia's weakness explains why they attacked us in the way they did.

MARTIN: So the beginning kind of nugget of this is that you're trying to understand what Russia's motivation would be. And what you see is that they want to use oil and gas as a tool for expressing kind of global power. But your thesis says it's larger than that. I mean, your thesis is that Russia, like a number of other countries, is basically the victim of a resource curse, right? Would you talk about what that means?

MADDOW: Sure. The basic idea is that if, in your country, you've got natural resources, that somebody is going to pay to come into your country and extract and then sell on the international market. That seems like something that ought to economically benefit your country. You will get new revenue from the extraction and sale of your natural resources. But what we see over and over again is that selling off your natural resources in the commodities market tends to kind of ruin your country. It tends to leave you worse off, even economically worse off. And that's because it has a warping⁸ effect on your economy.

It's hard to have a diversified⁹, stable economy when you've got one resource that's pulling in such a big revenue stream. And when you've got one resource that's pulling in such a big revenue stream, you tend to end up with very rich elites¹⁰ who will do anything to hold onto power, who stop doing the other things that governments should otherwise be doing to serve the needs of the people.

MARTIN: OK. So what does this have to do with Michael Jackson's glove?

MADDOW: (Laughter) Well, it's both a sad and all areas side story in this. The government in Equatorial Guinea got all these oil revenues. And they basically decided¹¹ to turn the president of the country and his son into some of the richest and most ostentatiously, flagrantly tacky people on the globe while the people of that country suffered and got poorer.

And the son of the president of Equatorial Guinea amassed¹² one of the world's great supercar collections and amassed mansions¹³ in the most flamboyant¹⁴ places in the world and put together a really spectacular collection of Michael Jackson memorabilia, all on oil revenue money that was essentially¹⁵ looted from the treasury¹⁶ of his country.

MARTIN: Meanwhile, people in his country, his - most of the citizens are living on - what? - pennies a day.

MADDOW: Yeah.

MARTIN: And people are still as poor, as sick and as under-nourished and under-educated as they were - what? - 20 years ago.

MADDOW: Yeah, and getting worse. Actually, as the oil revenues flooded in Equatorial Guinea, the government in terms of serving the needs of the people of that country got worse. And you saw everything get worse. You saw the poverty rate get worse. You saw the education system get worse. You even saw the vaccination¹⁷ rates go down just because that stream of oil revenue so captured the elites of that country that that became all they did was fighting to stay in power, to keep their clamp on that stream of revenue. And that just happens over and over again all over the world.

MARTIN: What about the United States, though? I mean, is there a way in which this is playing out here? Because one of the things that you argue is that these industries throw off so much money that it becomes relatively¹⁸ easy to buy off the elites who benefit from it because it's in the interest of these companies to maintain stable governments. And, you know, sad to say, stability and autocracy¹⁹ often go hand in hand. OK. But what about in the United States?

MADDOW: Well, I think the United States and sort of we the people of the United States have the key role in the whole world to play in this because the Western oil majors - not all of them but most of the important ones - are U.S. companies. And even if they're not U.S. companies, they need to operate within the United States, which is a rule of law country, which has the opportunity to regulate them if we so choose.

And so I think the most important way that we function in this is that if our government chose to make oil and gas companies better international and better corporate²⁰ citizens, it would have a knock-on effect all over the world in terms of this industry being able to prop²¹ up despotic regimes and sort of malignant²² bad actors around the world. We have the power to fix this if we demand that our representatives do this.

MARTIN: You say in the afterword to the book that you're never going to do this again. I take it just because, you know, writing a book while hosting a daily program, which you've been doing since - what? - August of 2008 is not easy.

MADDOW: Yeah.

MARTIN: You obviously have a sense of mission about it. What are you hoping to accomplish with this book?

MADDOW: I am hoping to convince myself to never do it again...

(LAUGHTER)

MADDOW: ...To remind myself that I do have a full-time²³ job. And I don't actually have the bandwidth and the physical stamina²⁴ to do a whole extra thing. But this thesis did compel me. And I do, you know, it's a deep look at this. And it's a book-length treatise²⁵ of this. And the only reason I did that is because I felt like the argument here is sort of too long to put on TV. It takes a couple hundred pages to tell it. But, you know, this isn't an activist²⁶ book. It's not a call to action. It's essentially a call to be conscious of this.

And I do think, to look at our situation in the country broadly right now, there is a growing awareness²⁷ that we need to think about bolstering²⁸ our democracy. I think democracy is in decline globally, and it is under pressure both here and around the world. And what I'd like to contribute to that very sober realization²⁹ we're having right now is a realization that regulating big corrosive³⁰ industries that undermine our democratic processes is part of standing³¹ up and bolstering our democracies, that we do actually need to rein³² in some of these guys.

MARTIN: That's Rachel Maddow. She's the author most recently of "Blowout: Corrupted Democracy, Rogue State Russia, And The Richest, Most Destructive Industry On Earth." And she's also, in her spare time, she's the host of the Emmy Award-winning "Rachel Maddow Show" on MSNBC. Thanks so much for talking to us today.

MADDOW: Michel, thank you so much.

1 lucrative   

adj.赚钱的，可获利的

参考例句：

• He decided to turn his hobby into a lucrative sideline.他决定把自己的爱好变成赚钱的副业。
• It was not a lucrative profession.那是一个没有多少油水的职业。

2 binds   

v.约束( bind的第三人称单数 )；装订；捆绑；（用长布条）缠绕

参考例句：

• Frost binds the soil. 霜使土壤凝结。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Stones and cement binds strongly. 石头和水泥凝固得很牢。 来自《简明英汉词典》

3 corrupted   

（使）败坏( corrupt的过去式和过去分词 )； （使）腐化； 引起（计算机文件等的）错误； 破坏

参考例句：

• The body corrupted quite quickly. 尸体很快腐烂了。
• The text was corrupted by careless copyists. 原文因抄写员粗心而有讹误。

4 rogue   

n.流氓；v.游手好闲

参考例句：

• The little rogue had his grandpa's glasses on.这淘气鬼带上了他祖父的眼镜。
• They defined him as a rogue.他们确定他为骗子。

5 trove   

n.被发现的东西，收藏的东西

参考例句：

• He assembled a rich trove of Chinese porcelain.他收集了一批中国瓷器。
• The gallery is a treasure trove of medieval art.这个画廊是中世纪艺术的宝库。

6 motive   

n.动机，目的；adv.发动的，运动的

参考例句：

• The police could not find a motive for the murder.警察不能找到谋杀的动机。
• He had some motive in telling this fable.他讲这寓言故事是有用意的。

7 innovative   

adj.革新的，新颖的，富有革新精神的

参考例句：

• Discover an innovative way of marketing.发现一个创新的营销方式。
• He was one of the most creative and innovative engineers of his generation.他是他那代人当中最富创造性与革新精神的工程师之一。

8 warping   

n.翘面，扭曲，变形v.弄弯，变歪( warp的现在分词 )；使（行为等）不合情理，使乖戾，

参考例句：

• Tilting, warping, and changes in elevation can seriously affect canals and shoreline facilities of various kinks. 倾斜、翘曲和高程变化可以严重地影响水渠和各种岸边设备。 来自辞典例句
• A warping, bending, or cracking, as that by excessive force. 翘曲，弯曲，裂开：翘曲、弯曲或裂开，如过强的外力引起。 来自互联网

9 diversified   

adj.多样化的，多种经营的v.使多样化，多样化( diversify的过去式和过去分词 )；进入新的商业领域

参考例句：

• The college biology department has diversified by adding new courses in biotechnology. 该学院生物系通过增加生物技术方面的新课程而变得多样化。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Take grain as the key link, develop a diversified economy and ensure an all-round development. 以粮为纲，多种经营，全面发展。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

10 elites   

精华( elite的名词复数 )； 精锐； 上层集团； （统称）掌权人物

参考例句：

• The elites are by their nature a factor contributing to underdevelopment. 这些上层人物天生是助长欠发达的因素。
• Elites always detest gifted and nimble outsiders. 社会名流对天赋聪明、多才多艺的局外人一向嫌恶。

11 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

12 amassed   

v.积累，积聚( amass的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He amassed a fortune from silver mining. 他靠开采银矿积累了一笔财富。
• They have amassed a fortune in just a few years. 他们在几年的时间里就聚集了一笔财富。 来自《简明英汉词典》

13 mansions   

n.宅第，公馆，大厦( mansion的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Fifth Avenue was boarded up where the rich had deserted their mansions. 第五大道上的富翁们已经出去避暑，空出的宅第都已锁好了门窗，钉上了木板。 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹
• Oh, the mansions, the lights, the perfume, the loaded boudoirs and tables! 啊，那些高楼大厦、华灯、香水、藏金收银的闺房还有摆满山珍海味的餐桌！ 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹

14 flamboyant   

adj.火焰般的，华丽的，炫耀的

参考例句：

• His clothes were rather flamboyant for such a serious occasion.他的衣着在这种严肃场合太浮夸了。
• The King's flamboyant lifestyle is well known.国王的奢华生活方式是人尽皆知的。

15 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

16 treasury   

n.宝库；国库，金库；文库

参考例句：

• The Treasury was opposed in principle to the proposals.财政部原则上反对这些提案。
• This book is a treasury of useful information.这本书是有价值的信息宝库。

17 vaccination   

n.接种疫苗，种痘

参考例句：

• Vaccination is a preventive against smallpox.种痘是预防天花的方法。
• Doctors suggest getting a tetanus vaccination every ten years.医生建议每十年注射一次破伤风疫苗。

18 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

19 autocracy   

n.独裁政治，独裁政府

参考例句：

• The revolution caused the overthrow of the autocracy.这场革命导致了独裁政体的结束。
• Many poor countries are abandoning autocracy.很多贫穷国家都在放弃独裁统治。

20 corporate   

adj.共同的，全体的；公司的，企业的

参考例句：

• This is our corporate responsibility.这是我们共同的责任。
• His corporate's life will be as short as a rabbit's tail.他的公司的寿命是兔子尾巴长不了。

21 prop   

vt.支撑；n.支柱，支撑物；支持者，靠山

参考例句：

• A worker put a prop against the wall of the tunnel to keep it from falling.一名工人用东西支撑住隧道壁好使它不会倒塌。
• The government does not intend to prop up declining industries.政府无意扶持不景气的企业。

22 malignant   

adj.恶性的，致命的；恶意的，恶毒的

参考例句：

• Alexander got a malignant slander.亚历山大受到恶意的诽谤。
• He started to his feet with a malignant glance at Winston.他爬了起来，不高兴地看了温斯顿一眼。

23 full-time   

adj.满工作日的或工作周的，全时间的

参考例句：

• A full-time job may be too much for her.全天工作她恐怕吃不消。
• I don't know how she copes with looking after her family and doing a full-time job.既要照顾家庭又要全天工作，我不知道她是如何对付的。

24 stamina   

n.体力；精力；耐力

参考例句：

• I lacked the stamina to run the whole length of the race.我没有跑完全程的耐力。
• Giving up smoking had a magical effect on his stamina.戒烟神奇地增强了他的体力。

25 treatise   

n.专著；(专题)论文

参考例句：

• The doctor wrote a treatise on alcoholism.那位医生写了一篇关于酗酒问题的论文。
• This is not a treatise on statistical theory.这不是一篇有关统计理论的论文。

26 activist   

n.活动分子，积极分子

参考例句：

• He's been a trade union activist for many years.多年来他一直是工会的积极分子。
• He is a social activist in our factory.他是我厂的社会活动积极分子。

27 awareness   

n.意识，觉悟，懂事，明智

参考例句：

• There is a general awareness that smoking is harmful.人们普遍认识到吸烟有害健康。
• Environmental awareness has increased over the years.这些年来人们的环境意识增强了。

28 bolstering   

v.支持( bolster的现在分词 )；支撑；给予必要的支持；援助

参考例句：

• Why should Donahue's people concern themselves with bolstering your image? 唐纳休的人为什么要费心维护你的形象？ 来自辞典例句
• He needed bolstering and support. 他需要别人助他一臂之力。 来自辞典例句

29 realization   

n.实现；认识到，深刻了解

参考例句：

• We shall gladly lend every effort in our power toward its realization.我们将乐意为它的实现而竭尽全力。
• He came to the realization that he would never make a good teacher.他逐渐认识到自己永远不会成为好老师。

30 corrosive   

adj.腐蚀性的；有害的；恶毒的

参考例句：

• Many highly corrosive substances are used in the nuclear industry.核工业使用许多腐蚀性很强的物质。
• Many highly corrosive substances are used in the nuclear industry.核工业使用许多腐蚀性很强的物质。

31 standing   

n.持续，地位；adj.永久的，不动的，直立的，不流动的

参考例句：

• After the earthquake only a few houses were left standing.地震过后只有几幢房屋还立着。
• They're standing out against any change in the law.他们坚决反对对法律做任何修改。

32 rein   

n.疆绳，统治，支配；vt.以僵绳控制，统治

参考例句：

• The horse answered to the slightest pull on the rein.只要缰绳轻轻一拉,马就作出反应。
• He never drew rein for a moment till he reached the river.他一刻不停地一直跑到河边。