PBS高端访谈:边境生活回忆录

Judy Woodruff: With immigration at the U.S. southern border very much in the news, we finish tonight with a perspective that takes a longer view. Jeffrey Brown recently spoke¹ with playwright² Octavio Solis about a new memoir³ chronicling his childhood along that border.

Octavio Solis: They're naive⁴ art painted by an artist for a specific person.

Jeffrey Brown: They're called retablos, small, simple paintings of Mexican folk art, often religious in nature.

Octavio Solis: Like, in this one here, this man has been stung by a bee.

Jeffrey Brown: Octavio Solis has collected them for years.

Octavio Solis: Each one of these is like a flash fiction story.

Jeffrey Brown: Flash fiction?

Octavio Solis: Because it's all encapsulated in one image with a little writing in it.

Jeffrey Brown: "Retablos" is also the name of Solis' latest work, a collection of stories about his childhood along the Texas-Mexico border.

Octavio Solis: That's what revisiting El Paso is like for me, like walking into a retablo with a rusty⁵ surface for a sky and misremembered family and friends for saints and supplicants, and the lost, distilled⁶ moments of my border past for miracles.

Jeffrey Brown: Octavio Solis, author of more than 20 plays regularly performed around the country, is one of the leading Latino voices in the theater.

We're not on the border anymore, are we? You're not.

Octavio Solis: Oh, no, not at all.

Jeffrey Brown: He lives in rural Oregon now, but in "Retablos," he looks back at himself as what he calls a skinny brown kid.

Octavio Solis: That's what I was growing up there, and with everything that comes with it, all the hang ups that come with being a young man

who's unsure of who he is and what he is as an American growing up in El Paso, Texas.

Jeffrey Brown: You describe a family that is in some ways living on the border of legality as well.

Octavio Solis: Oh, yes.

Jeffrey Brown: You're born in the U.S., your mother not, but she becomes legal. Your father's not at first.

Octavio Solis: We saw people crossing all the time around our household. They looked exactly like us, but they weren't us. We always found a way to kind of create distance. But we were so much like them. And there was, that distancing didn't work at some point, because Border Patrol would always stop us and ask us for like, where do you live? Can you recite the Pledge of Allegiance to us?

Jeffrey Brown: So, you always felt that?

Octavio Solis: I always felt that. That never left me.

Jeffrey Brown: Those tensions have often been a theme in his work, including a new version of "Don Quixote" that was staged this summer at the California Shakespeare Theater.

Actor: To fight for the unemployed⁷.

Octavio Solis: Using the "Quixote" spine⁸, the spine of that story, I was able to tell a new story about the border and about the Border Patrol and about the immigration issues that we're dealing⁹ with today. I feel it incumbent¹⁰ on me, in these times, to address the issues that I feel are endangering Latinos in this country.

Jeffrey Brown: So your Quixote is going through that landscape on the border?

Octavio Solis: And instead of fighting, tilting¹¹ at windmills, he's tilting at surveillance drones that the Border Patrol puts out around the desert there.

Jeffrey Brown: Recently, Solis had a chance to reach and teach an audience of millions, as part of a team of cultural consultants¹² hired by Pixar for the blockbuster hit "Coco," an animated¹³ film about a boy and his family in Mexico.

Octavio Solis: They had us look at every aspect of the film. We became the firewall between something that could be cooked up just for sales and something that was authentic¹⁴ to the culture.

Jeffrey Brown: Authentic to the culture, meaning?

Octavio Solis: To the culture, meaning a story that would accurately¹⁵ depict¹⁶ the Latino, the Mexico culture in Mexico in the film. So...

Jeffrey Brown: Which doesn't often happen.

Octavio Solis: Doesn't often happen at all. And films seldom bring consultants in to say, to check, is the dialogue sounding authentic? Is this correct Spanish? Would a character dress this way?

Jeffrey Brown: Solis says he was pleased with the final result, and the popularity it enjoyed.

Octavio Solis: It was a way also for general American audiences to relate to someone who's colored like me in a way that is so immediate¹⁷ and visceral and humane¹⁸. That's what's so puzzling and so disturbing about the times that we're living in, that a film like "Coco" can attract such a wide audience, and yet at the same time, a lot of that audience is demonizing us. It's really, it's very hard. It's very hard to sort of see that. I don't understand.

Jeffrey Brown: These days, with wife Jeanne and their daughter Gracie, there are chickens and goats to tend, and also new plays on the horizon. One is called "Mother Road," a kind of sequel to John Steinbeck's classic story of migrant workers, "The Grapes of Wrath¹⁹." The nearby Oregon Shakespeare Festival will stage it as a world premiere next summer. For the "PBS NewsHour," I'm Jeffrey Brown in Medford, Oregon.

朱迪·伍德拉夫：美国南部边境的移民问题已经成了各大媒体的焦点，那么今晚接的最后，我们就来讨论一下这个需要长远眼光看待的问题。最近，杰弗里·布朗采访了剧作家奥克塔维奥·索利斯，主题是他最新面世的一部回忆录，里面按时间顺序记叙了他在边境线上的童年生活。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：这是一位艺术家为某个人画的稚拙艺术。

杰弗里·布朗：这是组画，是墨西哥民间艺术里简单又不大的那种画，通常本质是宗教意味的。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：比如，这幅画里，这名男子被一只蜜蜂叮了。

杰弗里·布朗：奥克塔维奥·索利斯把他们珍藏了许多年。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：这里的每一幅画都像是一部微小说。

杰弗里·布朗：微小说？

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：所有东西都融入到一幅画面里，配上一点文字。

杰弗里·布朗：索利斯的最新作品也是组画，讲述了他孩童时代在得克萨斯州和墨西哥边境一连串的故事。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：对于我来说，重回厄尔巴索这个故地的感觉，就像走进了一幅组画，天空暗沉，错把亲朋好友当成了圣贤和乞丐，这是我遗失的过往，他们是我过去边境生活各种苦难的净化版。

杰弗里·布朗：奥克塔维奥·索利斯曾写过20个剧本，经常在全国各地上演。他是拉丁美洲在话剧领域屈指可数的宝藏。我们不再在边境生活了，对吗？是的，不再。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：哦不，根本不是这样。

杰弗里·布朗：他现在生活在俄勒冈州的农村地带，但在组画中，他回顾的时候，眼中的自己是一个骨瘦如柴、棕色皮肤的孩子。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：我生活在边境的时候就是这个样子，边境应该有的元素，我都体验过了，也经历过年轻人有过的迷惘。我曾经不知道自己是谁，也不知道应该怎样评价一个在得克萨斯州厄尔巴索长大的美国人。

杰弗里·布朗：您描述的那个家庭，从某些方面来讲，虽然生活在边境，但却是合法的。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：是的，没错。

杰弗里·布朗：您出生在美国，但您的母亲不是，而她的身份却是合法的。您的父亲一开始也不是。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：我们家附近经常人来人往。他们跟我们很像，但他们并不是我们。我们总是会找到方法拉开距离。但我们其实很相似。而且有时候拉开距离并不管用，因为边境巡逻队总是会拦住我们，问我们一些问题，比如：你们在哪儿住？能跟我们背一下效忠誓言吗？

杰弗里·布朗：所以您总是有这种感觉，是吗？

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：我总是有这种感觉，时时刻刻都是如此。

杰弗里·布朗：这种紧张感一直是他作品的主题，包括新版《唐吉诃德》。这部作品今年夏天还在加州的莎士比亚剧院上演了。

演员：我们要为失业者抗争。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：带着唐吉坷德的骨气和故事的精神，我就能讲述一个新的故事，内容与边境和边境巡逻队有关，与我们今天处理的移民问题有关。我觉得这是我在当今这个时代的责任——解决拉丁美洲人在这个国家感到危机的一些问题。

杰弗里·布朗：所以您的唐吉坷德是经历过各种边境磨难的，是吗？

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：他没有在风车旁倾斜，却在边境巡逻队放在沙漠附近的巡查无人机倾斜了。

杰弗里·布朗：最近，索利斯有机会接触到很多观众，并给他们上课，他是文化顾问中一员，这些文化顾问为皮克斯效力，创造出了鸿篇巨制的《寻梦环游记》。这部动画电影讲述的是一个男孩的故事，他和他的家人都生活在墨西哥。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：电影展示了方方面面的内容。我们成了一道防火墙，两边分别是商业化的东西和真正的文化。

杰弗里·布朗：您说的“真正的文化”是什么意思呢？

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：是说故事能准确地展现拉丁美洲人的生活和墨西哥文化。

杰弗里·布朗：但这种情况不会常有。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：几乎就不会有。影片在制作过程中从来不会把文化顾问叫来，让他们检查对话听起来是否纯正。这个西班牙语说的对吗？这样穿着对吗？

杰弗里·布朗：索利斯说他对结果很满意，对影片的普及度也很满意。

奥克塔维奥·索利斯：这也是一种方式，让普通的美国观众能跟我这样肤色的人以人性本能的方式建立联系，而且速度很快。这就让我们对我们所处的时代产生了困惑，《寻梦环游记》竟然会有如此多的受众。而且与此同时，很多观众把我们妖魔化了。很难看到这种情况，我不太明白。

杰弗里·布朗：最近，他跟妻子珍妮以及女儿格雷西一起，他们一起喂鸡和山羊，一起看地平线上的景色。一个名为《母亲路》，是约翰·斯坦贝克讲述农民工故事经典电影《愤怒的葡萄》的续集。明年夏天，勒冈莎士比亚节上将全球首映这部影片。以上是杰弗里·布朗从俄勒冈州德福德发回的《新闻一小时》。

1 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

2 playwright   

n.剧作家，编写剧本的人

参考例句：

• Gwyn Thomas was a famous playwright.格温·托马斯是著名的剧作家。
• The playwright was slaughtered by the press.这位剧作家受到新闻界的无情批判。

3 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

4 naive   

adj.幼稚的，轻信的；天真的

参考例句：

• It's naive of you to believe he'll do what he says.相信他会言行一致，你未免太单纯了。
• Don't be naive.The matter is not so simple.你别傻乎乎的。事情没有那么简单。

5 rusty   

adj.生锈的；锈色的；荒废了的

参考例句：

• The lock on the door is rusty and won't open.门上的锁锈住了。
• I haven't practiced my French for months and it's getting rusty.几个月不用，我的法语又荒疏了。

6 distilled   

adj.由蒸馏得来的v.蒸馏( distil的过去式和过去分词 )；从…提取精华

参考例句：

• The televised interview was distilled from 16 hours of film. 那次电视采访是从16个小时的影片中选出的精华。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Gasoline is distilled from crude oil. 汽油是从原油中提炼出来的。 来自《简明英汉词典》

7 unemployed   

adj.失业的，没有工作的；未动用的，闲置的

参考例句：

• There are now over four million unemployed workers in this country.这个国家现有四百万失业人员。
• The unemployed hunger for jobs.失业者渴望得到工作。

8 spine   

n.脊柱，脊椎；(动植物的)刺；书脊

参考例句：

• He broke his spine in a fall from a horse.他从马上跌下摔断了脊梁骨。
• His spine developed a slight curve.他的脊柱有点弯曲。

9 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

10 incumbent   

adj.成为责任的，有义务的；现任的，在职的

参考例句：

• He defeated the incumbent governor by a large plurality.他以压倒多数票击败了现任州长。
• It is incumbent upon you to warn them.你有责任警告他们。

11 tilting   

倾斜，倾卸

参考例句：

• For some reason he thinks everyone is out to get him, but he's really just tilting at windmills. 不知为什么他觉得每个人都想害他，但其实他不过是在庸人自扰。
• So let us stop bickering within our ranks.Stop tilting at windmills. 所以，让我们结束内部间的争吵吧！再也不要去做同风车作战的蠢事了。

12 consultants   

顾问( consultant的名词复数 )； 高级顾问医生，会诊医生

参考例句：

• a firm of management consultants 管理咨询公司
• There're many consultants in hospital. 医院里有很多会诊医生。

13 animated   

adj.生气勃勃的，活跃的，愉快的

参考例句：

• His observations gave rise to an animated and lively discussion.他的言论引起了一场气氛热烈而活跃的讨论。
• We had an animated discussion over current events last evening.昨天晚上我们热烈地讨论时事。

14 authentic   

a.真的，真正的；可靠的，可信的，有根据的

参考例句：

• This is an authentic news report. We can depend on it. 这是篇可靠的新闻报道, 我们相信它。
• Autumn is also the authentic season of renewal. 秋天才是真正的除旧布新的季节。

15 accurately   

adv.准确地，精确地

参考例句：

• It is hard to hit the ball accurately.准确地击中球很难。
• Now scientists can forecast the weather accurately.现在科学家们能准确地预报天气。

16 depict   

vt.描画，描绘；描写，描述

参考例句：

• I don't care to see plays or films that depict murders or violence.我不喜欢看描写谋杀或暴力的戏剧或电影。
• Children's books often depict farmyard animals as gentle,lovable creatures.儿童图书常常把农场的动物描写得温和而可爱。

17 immediate   

adj.立即的；直接的，最接近的；紧靠的

参考例句：

• His immediate neighbours felt it their duty to call.他的近邻认为他们有责任去拜访。
• We declared ourselves for the immediate convocation of the meeting.我们主张立即召开这个会议。

18 humane   

adj.人道的，富有同情心的

参考例句：

• Is it humane to kill animals for food?宰杀牲畜来吃合乎人道吗？
• Their aim is for a more just and humane society.他们的目标是建立一个更加公正、博爱的社会。

19 wrath   

n.愤怒，愤慨，暴怒

参考例句：

• His silence marked his wrath. 他的沉默表明了他的愤怒。
• The wrath of the people is now aroused. 人们被激怒了。