美国国家公共电台 NPR--The EU aims to find a way to hold Putin responsible for war crimes in Ukraine

The EU aims to find a way to hold Putin responsible for war crimes in Ukraine

Transcript¹

NPR's A Martinez talks to Luis Moreno Ocampo, former chief prosecutor² at the International Criminal Court, about an EU proposal for a special war crimes court in Ukraine.

A MART?NEZ, HOST:

Europe is also looking for new ways to hold Russia accountable for war crimes in Ukraine. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen says it's time for a new tribunal.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

URSULA VON DER LEYEN: Russia must pay for its horrific crimes, including for its crime of aggression³ against a sovereign state. And this is why, while continuing to support the International Criminal Court, we are proposing to set up a specialized⁴ court backed by the United Nations to investigate and prosecute⁵ Russia's crime of aggression.

MART?NEZ: Let's go now to Luis Moreno Ocampo. Between 2003 and 2012, he served as the first chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court. So let's start off, Luis, with this new court, the one proposed by the EU. Is that the best way to hold Russian leaders accountable?

LUIS MORENO OCAMPO: No. No way. What they're missing is - what they're learning might - I had experience to investigate head of states in the full pursuit of Bashir and Gaddafi. And the problem I learned - in fact, I'm the only one who had this experience. The problem I see is the political leaders should harmonize the solutions. And they are not - they're talking about sanctions, but they're not talking how to end the war. And the paradox⁶ is that President Putin should be accountable for criminal behavior but at the same time is the person to negotiate the deal to end the war and end the nuclear risk. We are in a conflict with a nuclear power. So it's not just about sanctions, it's about how to end the conflict. And so how to do investigations⁸ against President Putin and at the same time negotiate, that is what we discuss - we can discuss. And to do that, you don't need a new court. You just can implement⁹ - you have the beauty of having an independent International Criminal Court up and running. Use it.

MART?NEZ: But what can the International Criminal Court do if Russia does not accept their jurisdiction¹⁰?

OCAMPO: Well, for the aggression crime, which is the most obvious crimes committed by President Putin because it's the use of armed force against the territorial¹¹ integrity of another state - and that's obvious what's happened. The problem is Russia is not a party. And the law in the current situation requires that both states, the aggressor and the country like Ukraine, in this case, should be a part of the ICC. But for other crimes, that request is not needed. They - the International Criminal Court can investigate the crimes against humanity committed by President Putin himself. And that the way to make President Putin accountable. And interestingly, there are two important factors here. President Putin has immunity¹² before national court but has no immunity before the International Criminal Court, except the Article 28 of the statute¹³ say specifically, head of state should not have - in no case be exempt¹⁴ of criminal responsibility.

MART?NEZ: You mentioned, Luis, we're dealing¹⁵ with a nuclear power here.

OCAMPO: Yes.

MART?NEZ: Is that something that - are we in unchartered waters, so to speak, in that we've never dealt with anything like this before with this kind of scale?

OCAMPO: Well, you had the Cuban missile crisis in the '60s. And that's the closest for this, I believe. And that's why President Kennedy's goal was, yes, to attack, but at the same time, to negotiate. And that's what we are missing here. Economic sanctions did not work in Darfur. U.S. did a big effort to ban oil from Darfur. But everyone bought the oil - China, in particular, bought the oil in Darfur, so would not work. And the ICC could work. The interesting thing is, we don't need a new court. We just need an indictment¹⁷ against President Putin now.

MART?NEZ: But when it comes to some form of restitution¹⁸ for Ukraine, I know that EU member states have frozen 300 billion in Russian central bank reserves. If that ever gets unfrozen and sanctions get lifted, could some of that money be tied to some kind of peace agreement, so that way Ukraine gets some measure of being whole again?

OCAMPO: Well, that's exactly the political issue to discuss. How to - OK. We need the International Criminal Court indictment. We have this money frozen. How we can combine these to put pressure on President Putin to make a deal, to make a negotiation¹⁹, to stop the crime? And that's the paradox because the war is not well-organized. The criminal is, at the same time, the person who can make peace. And that's the paradox. But the interesting point is that in the International Criminal Court, they can indict¹⁶ him. But then the U.N. Security Council could decide to suspend investigation⁷. So that what President Obama did in Darfur. He used the arrest warrant against Bashir as leverage²⁰ to force Bashir to accept the South's independence. So that's what we need now. Harmonize a criminal investigation. Indict President Putin. And then negotiate with him to end the conflict.

MART?NEZ: OK. Luis Moreno Ocampo, former chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Court. Luis, thanks.

OCAMPO: Thank you.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

3 aggression   

n.进攻，侵略，侵犯，侵害

参考例句：

• So long as we are firmly united, we need fear no aggression.只要我们紧密地团结，就不必惧怕外来侵略。
• Her view is that aggression is part of human nature.她认为攻击性是人类本性的一部份。

4 specialized   

adj.专门的，专业化的

参考例句：

• There are many specialized agencies in the United Nations.联合国有许多专门机构。
• These tools are very specialized.这些是专用工具。

5 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

6 paradox   

n.似乎矛盾却正确的说法；自相矛盾的人(物)

参考例句：

• The story contains many levels of paradox.这个故事存在多重悖论。
• The paradox is that Japan does need serious education reform.矛盾的地方是日本确实需要教育改革。

7 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

8 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

9 implement   

n.(pl.)工具，器具；vt.实行，实施，执行

参考例句：

• Don't undertake a project unless you can implement it.不要承担一项计划，除非你能完成这项计划。
• The best implement for digging a garden is a spade.在花园里挖土的最好工具是铁锹。

10 jurisdiction   

n.司法权，审判权，管辖权，控制权

参考例句：

• It doesn't lie within my jurisdiction to set you free.我无权将你释放。
• Changzhou is under the jurisdiction of Jiangsu Province.常州隶属江苏省。

11 territorial   

adj.领土的，领地的

参考例句：

• The country is fighting to preserve its territorial integrity.该国在为保持领土的完整而进行斗争。
• They were not allowed to fish in our territorial waters.不允许他们在我国领海捕鱼。

12 immunity   

n.优惠；免除；豁免，豁免权

参考例句：

• The law gives public schools immunity from taxation.法律免除公立学校的纳税义务。
• He claims diplomatic immunity to avoid being arrested.他要求外交豁免以便避免被捕。

13 statute   

n.成文法，法令，法规；章程，规则，条例

参考例句：

• Protection for the consumer is laid down by statute.保障消费者利益已在法令里作了规定。
• The next section will consider this environmental statute in detail.下一部分将详细论述环境法令的问题。

14 exempt   

adj.免除的；v.使免除；n.免税者，被免除义务者

参考例句：

• These goods are exempt from customs duties.这些货物免征关税。
• He is exempt from punishment about this thing.关于此事对他已免于处分。

15 dealing   

n.经商方法，待人态度

参考例句：

• This store has an excellent reputation for fair dealing.该商店因买卖公道而享有极高的声誉。
• His fair dealing earned our confidence.他的诚实的行为获得我们的信任。

16 indict   

v.起诉，控告，指控

参考例句：

• You can't indict whole people for the crudeness of a few.您不能因少数人的粗暴行为就控诉整个民族。
• I can indict you for abducting high school student.我可以告你诱拐中学生。

17 indictment   

n.起诉；诉状

参考例句：

• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。
• They issued an indictment against them.他们起诉了他们。

18 restitution   

n.赔偿；恢复原状

参考例句：

• It's only fair that those who do the damage should make restitution.损坏东西的人应负责赔偿，这是再公平不过的了。
• The victims are demanding full restitution.受害人要求全额赔偿。

19 negotiation   

n.谈判，协商

参考例句：

• They closed the deal in sugar after a week of negotiation.经过一星期的谈判，他们的食糖生意成交了。
• The negotiation dragged on until July.谈判一直拖到7月份。

20 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。