美国国家公共电台 NPR--Dozens arrested in Germany under suspicion of a plot to overthrow the government

Dozens arrested in Germany under suspicion of a plot to overthrow¹ the government

Transcript²

German authorities say they expect more arrests as they investigate an alleged³ plot to overthrow the government that led to dozens of arrests Wednesday across the country.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

German authorities say they expect to make more arrests as they investigate an alleged plot to overthrow the government there. Thousands of police officers carried out raids throughout Germany yesterday. They arrested more than two dozen people suspected of planning to break into the seat of Germany's government, attack political leaders and seize control of the country. Among those arrested, an aristocrat⁴, a soldier and a former member of parliament. We're joined now by Constanze Stelzenmuller. She is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and an expert on German foreign and security policy. Constanza, thanks for being here.

CONSTANZE STELZENMULLER: Thank you very much for having me on. Good morning.

MARTIN: Good morning. On its face, this plot sounds horrific. I mean, these people were plotting to break into government buildings, kill political leaders. Having this plan at all is obviously criminal. But based on what you're learning, how realistic was it?

STELZENMULLER: Well, it seems as though the police had been watching this group for a very, very long time and had been carefully monitoring their every move. They were just - if you look at the plan that they executed there yesterday, they searched 130 premises⁵ with 3,000 officers and arrested 25 individuals. I think, at this point, we're at 30. And they are planning to arrest more and even made arrests in Austria and Italy. That suggests they've been watching this for a very long time and were watching to crack down. The other thing that is really notable, they had informed a lot of press. So TV and print journalists were ready with cameras and with stories.

MARTIN: But again, was this something - I mean, where was it on the risk threshold? I mean, could the German government have been violently overtaken?

STELZENMULLER: No, that I don't think. And thanks for repeating the question because I hadn't answered it. I think that the conspiracists were led by the notion that if they stormed the federal legislature, the Bundestag, in sort of a repeat of January 6, the storming of the Capitol, that they could then overthrow the government. I think that is wildly underestimating both the stability of Germany's institutions and, I think, the mood in the German public. And the two leadership figures that they had identified - a older gentleman from a minor⁶ princely family in East Germany and a retired⁷ judge who had been a former parliamentarian of the hard-right party, AfD - if you look at their biographies, I think nothing suggests that they would be effective leaders.

What is really concerning about this plot, though, is that it involves, apparently⁸, retired and active members of Germany's security services, including at least one active member of an elite⁹ forces unit where the previous defense¹⁰ minister, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, had already cracked down and dissolved a whole company because of right-wing infiltration¹¹. This suggests that that process has been ongoing¹².

MARTIN: Well, and that they are actively¹³ recruiting from inside the police force now.

STELZENMULLER: Yes.

MARTIN: This would suggest something that is far more systemic in terms of risk.

STELZENMULLER: Well, look; I think we've all seen in all Western societies a great deal of insecurity and concern and a yearning¹⁴ for order and security as a cause of the pandemic, of international disruptions beginning, really, with the global financial crisis 10 years ago, and now with an attack by Russia on Ukraine that has global implications in terms of inflation and energy prices. That, I think, you know, creates a climate in which people become susceptible¹⁵ and vulnerable.

But I would caution against assuming that the entirety of the German security services are infiltrated¹⁶. And we have known for quite a long time that the hard right in Germany was trying to tunnel into the services. I'm pretty sure that the German security services have an eye on this. But we did have a former head of domestic intelligence, until a couple of years ago, who turned out to be quite right wing himself and who had to leave. And the hard crackdown dates back to a year or two, really.

MARTIN: So, I mean, Germany obviously has a long history with extremist groups. It has dealt with them for a long time. The reporting out of this plot suggests - says that Qanon is a group that has been influential¹⁷ in this plot, also a group called Reichsburger.

STELZENMULLER: Yes.

MARTIN: Can you explain what that group is about and what this plot reveals about how the far-right movement in Germany has evolved?

STELZENMULLER: Sure. So QAnon, as you know, started off in the United States but has many adherents¹⁸ in other societies, including in Western Europe. And that's certainly the case in Germany. And the Reichsburger have, I think, equivalent - although, they don't come from the U.S., they have equivalence, you know, with the folks who sort of barricade¹⁹ themselves on ranches²⁰ and don't accept the power of the federal government. That's what these people are. They don't accept the sovereignty of the Federal Republic of Germany. And they want to reinstate a pre-democratic government. That's what the prince was intended for, it appears.

They - many of their ideas seem ludicrous. And they indulge in, you know, global conspiracy²¹ theories laced with antisemitic tropes. They believe in Satanism and pedophilia rings. All that sounds familiar, probably, to your listeners. But I think what's important to understand is that external powers, namely Russia, have been using this kind of messaging themselves. Vladimir Putin himself only a few weeks ago gave a speech in which he ranted²² at length about Satanism. And so there is also an external connection here that we might be seeing appear more clearly in the coming weeks and days.

MARTIN: And, of course, there's the rise institutionally of the AfD, the far-right party, which gives them a more mainstream²³ voice.

STELZENMULLER: Absolutely.

MARTIN: You - just in closing, you referenced January 6 earlier in our conversation. I mean, we still are living through the effects of the attempt to overturn a democratic election. What are going to be the long-term effects of this in Germany for the German psyche²⁴ and democratic institutions? Just a few seconds.

STELZENMULLER: Honestly, I'm looking at the reactions now. They're relatively²⁵ calm. I think, if these conspirators²⁶ wanted to undermine German governments and make people insecure, I think they showed the opposite. And I think, maybe, also German police intended this as a pretty massive show of force. I think that's, on the whole, relatively reassuring²⁷. But we will absolutely have to dig deeper in this.

MARTIN: Constanze Stelzenmuller is a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. We appreciate your time and perspective this morning. Thank you.

STELZENMULLER: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me on. Have a good day.

1 overthrow   

v.推翻，打倒，颠覆；n.推翻，瓦解，颠覆

参考例句：

• After the overthrow of the government,the country was in chaos.政府被推翻后，这个国家处于混乱中。
• The overthrow of his plans left him much discouraged.他的计划的失败使得他很气馁。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 alleged   

a.被指控的，嫌疑的

参考例句：

• It was alleged that he had taken bribes while in office. 他被指称在任时收受贿赂。
• alleged irregularities in the election campaign 被指称竞选运动中的不正当行为

4 aristocrat   

n.贵族，有贵族气派的人，上层人物

参考例句：

• He was the quintessential english aristocrat.他是典型的英国贵族。
• He is an aristocrat to the very marrow of his bones.他是一个道道地地的贵族。

5 premises   

n.建筑物，房屋

参考例句：

• According to the rules,no alcohol can be consumed on the premises.按照规定，场内不准饮酒。
• All repairs are done on the premises and not put out.全部修缮都在家里进行，不用送到外面去做。

6 minor   

adj.较小(少)的，较次要的；n.辅修学科；vi.辅修

参考例句：

• The young actor was given a minor part in the new play.年轻的男演员在这出新戏里被分派担任一个小角色。
• I gave him a minor share of my wealth.我把小部分财产给了他。

7 retired   

adj.隐退的，退休的，退役的

参考例句：

• The old man retired to the country for rest.这位老人下乡休息去了。
• Many retired people take up gardening as a hobby.许多退休的人都以从事园艺为嗜好。

8 apparently   

adv.显然地；表面上，似乎

参考例句：

• An apparently blind alley leads suddenly into an open space.山穷水尽，豁然开朗。
• He was apparently much surprised at the news.他对那个消息显然感到十分惊异。

9 elite   

n.精英阶层；实力集团；adj.杰出的，卓越的

参考例句：

• The power elite inside the government is controlling foreign policy.政府内部的一群握有实权的精英控制着对外政策。
• We have a political elite in this country.我们国家有一群政治精英。

10 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

11 infiltration   

n.渗透；下渗；渗滤；入渗

参考例句：

• The police tried to prevent infiltration by drug traffickers. 警方尽力阻止毒品走私分子的潜入。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• A loss in volume will occur if infiltration takes place. 如果发生了渗润作用，水量就会减少。 来自辞典例句

12 ongoing   

adj.进行中的，前进的

参考例句：

• The problem is ongoing.这个问题尚未解决。
• The issues raised in the report relate directly to Age Concern's ongoing work in this area.报告中提出的问题与“关心老人”组织在这方面正在做的工作有直接的关系。

13 actively   

adv.积极地，勤奋地

参考例句：

• During this period all the students were actively participating.在这节课中所有的学生都积极参加。
• We are actively intervening to settle a quarrel.我们正在积极调解争执。

14 yearning   

a.渴望的；向往的；怀念的

参考例句：

• a yearning for a quiet life 对宁静生活的向往
• He felt a great yearning after his old job. 他对过去的工作有一种强烈的渴想。

15 susceptible   

adj.过敏的，敏感的；易动感情的，易受感动的

参考例句：

• Children are more susceptible than adults.孩子比成人易受感动。
• We are all susceptible to advertising.我们都易受广告的影响。

16 infiltrated   

adj.[医]浸润的v.（使）渗透，（指思想）渗入人的心中( infiltrate的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The headquarters had been infiltrated by enemy spies. 总部混入了敌方特务。
• Many Chinese idioms have infiltrated into the Japanese language. 许多中国成语浸透到日语中。 来自《现代英汉综合大词典》

17 influential   

adj.有影响的，有权势的

参考例句：

• He always tries to get in with the most influential people.他总是试图巴结最有影响的人物。
• He is a very influential man in the government.他在政府中是个很有影响的人物。

18 adherents   

n.支持者，拥护者( adherent的名词复数 )；党羽；徒子徒孙

参考例句：

• He is a leader with many adherents. 他是个有众多追随者的领袖。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The proposal is gaining more and more adherents. 该建议得到越来越多的支持者。 来自《简明英汉词典》

19 barricade   

n.路障，栅栏，障碍；vt.设路障挡住

参考例句：

• The soldiers make a barricade across the road.士兵在路上设路障。
• It is difficult to break through a steel barricade.冲破钢铁障碍很难。

20 ranches   

大农场， （兼种果树，养鸡等的）大牧场( ranch的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• They hauled feedlot manure from the ranches to fertilize their fields. 他们从牧场的饲养场拖走肥料去肥田。
• Many abandoned ranches are purchased or leased by other poultrymen. 许多被放弃的牧场会由其他家禽监主收买或租用。

21 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

22 ranted   

v.夸夸其谈( rant的过去式和过去分词 )；大叫大嚷地以…说教；气愤地)大叫大嚷；不停地大声抱怨

参考例句：

• Drink in hand,he ranted about his adventures in Africa. 他端着酒杯，激动地叙述他在非洲的经历。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Lu Xun ranted and raved against the enemy, but he felt warmth towards the people. 鲁迅对敌人冷嘲热讽，而对人民却是满腔热忱。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

23 mainstream   

n.（思想或行为的）主流；adj.主流的

参考例句：

• Their views lie outside the mainstream of current medical opinion.他们的观点不属于当今医学界观点的主流。
• Polls are still largely reflects the mainstream sentiment.民调还在很大程度上反映了社会主流情绪。

24 psyche   

n.精神；灵魂

参考例句：

• His exploration of the myth brings insight into the American psyche.他对这个神话的探讨揭示了美国人的心理。
• She spent her life plumbing the mysteries of the human psyche.她毕生探索人类心灵的奥秘。

25 relatively   

adv.比较...地，相对地

参考例句：

• The rabbit is a relatively recent introduction in Australia.兔子是相对较新引入澳大利亚的物种。
• The operation was relatively painless.手术相对来说不痛。

26 conspirators   

n.共谋者，阴谋家( conspirator的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The conspirators took no part in the fighting which ensued. 密谋者没有参加随后发生的战斗。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The French conspirators were forced to escape very hurriedly. 法国同谋者被迫匆促逃亡。 来自辞典例句

27 reassuring   

a.使人消除恐惧和疑虑的，使人放心的

参考例句：

• He gave her a reassuring pat on the shoulder. 他轻拍了一下她的肩膀让她放心。
• With a reassuring pat on her arm, he left. 他鼓励地拍了拍她的手臂就离开了。