美国国家公共电台 NPR--'They are joining me. I'm not joining them': Netanyahu defends far-right allies

'They are joining me. I'm not joining them': Netanyahu defends far-right allies

Transcript¹

Benjamin Netanyahu, soon expected to return to office as Israel's prime minister, is defending his effort to assemble a government with far-right ultranationalists.

Facing criticism in Israel and abroad, Netanyahu previously² had not spoken in detail about Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel's most polarizing far-right politician, now in line to be Netanyahu's minister of national security overseeing the police.

In an interview with NPR's Morning Edition, Netanyahu offered his most extensive defense⁴ to date of his decision to embrace Ben-Gvir, who was convicted in 2007 of supporting an anti-Arab group that Israel and the U.S. classify as a terrorist organization.

Ben-Gvir has "modified a lot of his views since then," Netanyahu said. "With power comes responsibility."

Netanyahu's party performed well in recent Israeli elections, bringing the country's longest-serving prime minister close to gaining the office for a third time. It's a turnaround: Just last year a broad Israeli coalition⁵ ousted⁶ him from power. He was on trial at the time on corruption⁷ charges, and the trial still continues.

To reach a majority in the highly fragmented Knesset, or parliament, the conservative leader has allied⁸ with several parties well to his right. In the past, Ben-Gvir has called Arab members of the Knesset "a fifth column," or enemy within, and said Arabs should be expelled from Israel. About 20% of Israel's population are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship⁹. As recently as last August he said in an Israeli TV interview that "disloyal" Arabs should be thrown out. Another prospective¹⁰ government minister is a lawmaker who has challenged the rights of people who identify as LGBTQ.

The prime minister-designate insisted this was little different than the government he replaced, which included an Islamist party. "Coalitions¹¹ make interesting bedfellows," Netanyahu said, and maintained that he — not his allies — will call the shots on policy. "They are joining me. I'm not joining them."

Netanyahu is a dominant¹² Israeli figure of the past half-century, serving first as an elite¹³ commando, then as an opposition¹⁴ politician and eventually as prime minister for a total of 15 years — longer than any other leader in his country's history. During his time out of power he completed a memoir¹⁵, titled Bibi, which is his nickname. He spoke³ with NPR about the book while managing coalition talks, a task he insisted he does not enjoy.

"All politics is cruel," he said. "Israeli politics is crueler than most. I've been subjected, especially my family, to endless vilification¹⁶ because I keep winning elections."

A few excerpts¹⁷ of our far-reaching discussion follow. They have been edited for length and clarity.

Interview highlights

On his coalition partner Itamar Ben-Gvir

What value does that specific individual bring to the job of overseeing the police?

Well, first of all, his eligibility¹⁸ was decided¹⁹ by the Supreme²⁰ Court. ... Secondly²¹, he's modified a lot of his views since then. And I have to say that, with power comes responsibility. Not always, sometimes it works the other way around. ... And certainly [it's one thing to speak in] political campaigns a decade and a half ago, and it's another to actually be in a position of responsibility in governance, and I certainly will ensure that that will be the case. Now, you ask about the well, you know –

Yes, what makes him valuable as head of the police, of all things?

Well, I think one of the things that we've seen is the erosion of internal security in Israel. It's a big, big issue. I have to say his party ran on that. He says, "I want to be tested. I think I can bring security to Arabs, the Arab citizens and Jews, citizens alike." ... That was his campaign promise. We have a coalition. I said you will be given the chance. You'll be given the tools. You better do the job. And I think that time will see.

Are you saying that Arab Israelis, Israeli Arabs, Palestinian citizens of Israel, as many will call themselves, should be able to trust this man who has said that Arabs should be expelled?

No, I don't think anybody should trust anybody based on their promises. He doesn't say that right now, by the way. ... But I think what will be the test is not whether you believe him or not, but whether you see an actual result. The same is true of me. The jury is out on all of this.

On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Do you see any way that ordinary Palestinians would get political equality ... in the foreseeable future?

Well, yes, my formula is very simple. ... The only peace that will hold is one that we can defend. And the one that we can defend is one in which the Palestinians have all the powers to govern themselves, but none of the powers to threaten our life, which means that security, in whatever political arrangements we'll have realistically will have to remain in Israel's hands.

They won't see that as political equality, of course.

No, I don't doubt that for a minute. I say it openly. Joe Biden, friend of 40 years, when he was vice²² president, was in Israel. And he said to me, "But Bibi, that's not complete sovereignty." And I said, "You're right, Joe, but that's the only one that will last."

On his opposition to Biden's effort to rejoin a nuclear agreement with Iran

Joe Biden has been a great friend, although we've had our disagreements. He always says, "Bibi, I love you. I don't agree with you on anything." That's not true. We agree on quite a few things. I have a suspicion right now that because of the unfolding events, the dramatic events in Iran [anti-government protests] and the change of attitude that has happened across the political spectrum²³, left and right in many lands ... I have a clear feeling that today in Washington, people understand that the way to go is not to return to the flawed nuclear agreement, but in fact, to adopt a much more resolute²⁴ attitude.

1 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

2 previously   

adv.以前，先前（地）

参考例句：

• The bicycle tyre blew out at a previously damaged point.自行车胎在以前损坏过的地方又爆开了。
• Let me digress for a moment and explain what had happened previously.让我岔开一会儿，解释原先发生了什么。

3 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。

4 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

5 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

6 ousted   

驱逐( oust的过去式和过去分词 )； 革职； 罢黜； 剥夺

参考例句：

• He was ousted as chairman. 他的主席职务被革除了。
• He may be ousted by a military takeover. 他可能在一场军事接管中被赶下台。

7 corruption   

n.腐败，堕落，贪污

参考例句：

• The people asked the government to hit out against corruption and theft.人民要求政府严惩贪污盗窃。
• The old man reviled against corruption.那老人痛斥了贪污舞弊。

8 allied   

adj.协约国的；同盟国的

参考例句：

• Britain was allied with the United States many times in history.历史上英国曾多次与美国结盟。
• Allied forces sustained heavy losses in the first few weeks of the campaign.同盟国在最初几周内遭受了巨大的损失。

9 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

10 prospective   

adj.预期的，未来的，前瞻性的

参考例句：

• The story should act as a warning to other prospective buyers.这篇报道应该对其他潜在的购买者起到警示作用。
• They have all these great activities for prospective freshmen.这会举办各种各样的活动来招待未来的新人。

11 coalitions   

结合体，同盟( coalition的名词复数 )； （两党或多党）联合政府

参考例句：

• History testifies to the ineptitude of coalitions in waging war. 历史昭示我们，多数国家联合作战，其进行甚为困难。
• All the coalitions in history have disintegrated sooner or later. 历史上任何联盟迟早都垮台了。

12 dominant   

adj.支配的，统治的；占优势的；显性的；n.主因，要素，主要的人(或物)；显性基因

参考例句：

• The British were formerly dominant in India.英国人从前统治印度。
• She was a dominant figure in the French film industry.她在法国电影界是个举足轻重的人物。

13 elite   

n.精英阶层；实力集团；adj.杰出的，卓越的

参考例句：

• The power elite inside the government is controlling foreign policy.政府内部的一群握有实权的精英控制着对外政策。
• We have a political elite in this country.我们国家有一群政治精英。

14 opposition   

n.反对，敌对

参考例句：

• The party leader is facing opposition in his own backyard.该党领袖在自己的党內遇到了反对。
• The police tried to break down the prisoner's opposition.警察设法制住了那个囚犯的反抗。

15 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

16 vilification   

n.污蔑，中伤，诽谤

参考例句：

• They pelted him with ridicule and vilification. 他们用嘲笑和丑化对他进行猛烈的攻击。 来自互联网
• Bishop's letter was the signal for a campaign of vilification and intimidation unequaled in American history. 主教的信是发动一场在美国历史上没有前例的诬蔑和恐吓运动的信号。 来自互联网

17 excerpts   

n.摘录，摘要( excerpt的名词复数 )；节选（音乐，电影）片段

参考例句：

• Some excerpts from a Renaissance mass are spatchcocked into Gluck's pallid Don Juan music. 一些文艺复光时期的弥撒的选节被不适当地加入到了格鲁克平淡无味的唐璜音乐中。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He is editing together excerpts of some of his films. 他正在将自己制作的一些电影的片断进行剪辑合成。 来自辞典例句

18 eligibility   

n.合格，资格

参考例句：

• What are the eligibility requirements? 病人被选参加试验的要求是什么？ 来自英汉非文学 - 生命科学 - 回顾与展望
• Eligibility for HINARI access is based on gross national income (GNI). 进入HINARI获取计划是依据国民总收入来评定的。

19 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

20 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

21 secondly   

adv.第二，其次

参考例句：

• Secondly,use your own head and present your point of view.第二，动脑筋提出自己的见解。
• Secondly it is necessary to define the applied load.其次，需要确定所作用的载荷。

22 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

23 spectrum   

n.谱，光谱，频谱；范围，幅度，系列

参考例句：

• This is a kind of atomic spectrum.这是一种原子光谱。
• We have known much of the constitution of the solar spectrum.关于太阳光谱的构成，我们已了解不少。

24 resolute   

adj.坚决的，果敢的

参考例句：

• He was resolute in carrying out his plan.他坚决地实行他的计划。
• The Egyptians offered resolute resistance to the aggressors.埃及人对侵略者作出坚决的反抗。