美国国家公共电台 NPR--Jan. 6 panel to vote on criminal referrals against former President Trump

Jan. 6 panel to vote on criminal referrals against former President Trump¹

Transcript²

Ahead of the House Jan. 6 committee meeting Monday, NPR's Steve Inskeep talks to law professor Kim Wehle about the importance of this moment for American democracy.

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

Today, a House committee votes on whether to send the Justice Department evidence of crimes linked with the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol. A source familiar with the deliberations says they will take up a criminal referral against former President Trump on at least three different charges. That's one more than previously³ known. Representative Adam Schiff told NPR earlier this month he thought the evidence is there.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

ADAM SCHIFF: The facts support a potential charge against the former president. And, you know, the Justice Department, in my view, needs to hold everyone equally responsible before the law, and that includes former presidents when they engage in criminality.

INSKEEP: Schiff added that it is a political as well as a legal decision for Congress to make this statement. Let's talk it through with Kim Wehle, a former federal prosecutor⁴, now visiting professor of law at American University and the author of "How To Read The Constitution And Why."

Kim, good morning. We might need the Constitution before we're done with this, I think.

KIM WEHLE: The Constitution is squarely on the table this week, yes, Steve.

INSKEEP: Well, let's talk through the charges. Our colleague Claudia Grisales hears that three charges will be voted on. We don't know that they'll be voted up, but we would expect so. The three charges are conspiracy⁵, obstruction⁶ of an official proceeding⁷ - we'd heard of those two - and now insurrection is on the table, a serious charge. What would that charge be about?

WEHLE: So the conspiracy to defraud⁸ the U.S. and obstruction of an official proceeding - those relate to efforts prior to January 6, in part, to drum up fake electors and persuade Mike Pence to not do his job. The insurrection is about what happened in the day on the Capitol, and it includes assisting in a rebellion against the authority of the United States. So it doesn't require that Donald Trump actually have entered the Capitol, which reportedly he had interest in doing, but an assistance in that effort could suffice.

INSKEEP: I'm interested in the concept that a sitting president, someone still in office, could be accused of insurrection against the United States government that it's the head of. I guess this is a reminder⁹ - isn't it? - that the government is not about one person ever. It's about the Constitution and the law. He is not the government, even when he's in that office.

WEHLE: Listen; he's made that argument. He made that argument, you know, in the various impeachment¹⁰ hearings. He's made it in court in various, you know, flavors of complete absolute immunity¹¹. He's not a king. We don't have a monarchy¹² here. And, you know, trying to overthrow¹³ the United States Congress does qualify, notwithstanding, that he was a sitting president in that moment. Although, you know, if he is charged, we'll probably hear some kind of argument along those lines made in court.

INSKEEP: Is there a different legal significance to this specific charge of insurrection as compared to the other ones?

WEHLE: I think so because the 14th Amendment¹⁴ - Section 3 of the 14th Amendment - a post-Civil War amendment that was designed to keep Confederates out of the government, makes it against the Constitution to hold office if you engaged in an insurrection. And we know the House introduced, I think, Thursday a bill that would tie Donald Trump to the Constitution in that regard with the aim of keeping him off the ballot¹⁵ for any federal office moving forward.

INSKEEP: This is a bill introduced Thursday, so it would have to be passed in the next few days. They would have to start all over again in a Republican House in order to get this done in the future. Is that right?

WEHLE: Right. It's unlikely. I mean, there is a statute¹⁶ from 1870, but there are sort of clunky elements of it. So I think the idea is just do a clean bill that makes clear that this kind of thing does qualify in 2022 to keep people out of office.

INSKEEP: Can you talk me through what happens next? So there's this criminal referral, which gets voted on today. Let's assume - let's suppose, rather - that the House committee votes to refer these charges to the Justice Department. They have acknowledged to us their thinking about the law but also thinking about politics - what makes the most political sense for the country as to whether to do this. Then they hand it over to the Justice Department, where it seems to me that the law and politics are in play again. How does the Justice Department conduct an investigation¹⁷ in a way that could reassure¹⁸ people that it is not deliberately¹⁹ political, that it is strictly²⁰ about the law?

WEHLE: Well, I think what's happening this week with this report, this bipartisan report, is kind of a triumph for the rule of law and for government functioning, that this actually happened in these days. You know, the Justice Department will continue its work with a grand jury privately²¹, confidentially²², will have public transcripts²³, though, available both to potential defendants²⁴ and witnesses and the Justice Department of what many of these people have already said. That's unusual.

But at the end of the day, this is about, on the one hand, political conflicts of interest and, on the other hand, the rule of law and the potential for political violence moving forward, which - the November ABC-Washington Post poll said 88% of Americans are worried about increased political violence. We need to shore up the structure of the Constitution and make it clear that this kind of thing is not OK. There are consequences for these kinds of abuses because retaining the integrity of the office itself is more important.

INSKEEP: Is Congress likely to change any of the rules applying to the president or to elections?

WEHLE: Well, there's talk of amending²⁵ the Electoral Count Act - again, a very old statute - to clarify that the constitutional role of the vice²⁶ president is ministerial and that the states cannot, at the last minute, snatch election results from the people and nor can the U.S. Congress and nor can the vice president of the United States. Clarifying that, pinning that down would go a long way to avoiding a successful January 6 moving forward.

INSKEEP: Kim Wehle of American University. Thanks so much.

WEHLE: Thank you, Steve.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 previously   

adv.以前，先前（地）

参考例句：

• The bicycle tyre blew out at a previously damaged point.自行车胎在以前损坏过的地方又爆开了。
• Let me digress for a moment and explain what had happened previously.让我岔开一会儿，解释原先发生了什么。

4 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

5 conspiracy   

n.阴谋，密谋，共谋

参考例句：

• The men were found guilty of conspiracy to murder.这些人被裁决犯有阴谋杀人罪。
• He claimed that it was all a conspiracy against him.他声称这一切都是一场针对他的阴谋。

6 obstruction   

n.阻塞，堵塞；障碍物

参考例句：

• She was charged with obstruction of a police officer in the execution of his duty.她被指控妨碍警察执行任务。
• The road was cleared from obstruction.那条路已被清除了障碍。

7 proceeding   

n.行动，进行，(pl.)会议录，学报

参考例句：

• This train is now proceeding from Paris to London.这次列车从巴黎开往伦敦。
• The work is proceeding briskly.工作很有生气地进展着。

8 defraud   

vt.欺骗，欺诈

参考例句：

• He passed himself off as the managing director to defraud the bank.他假冒总经理的名义诈骗银行。
• He is implicated in the scheme to defraud the government.他卷入了这起欺骗政府的阴谋。

9 reminder   

n.提醒物，纪念品；暗示，提示

参考例句：

• I have had another reminder from the library.我又收到图书馆的催还单。
• It always took a final reminder to get her to pay her share of the rent.总是得发给她一份最后催缴通知，她才付应该交的房租。

10 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

11 immunity   

n.优惠；免除；豁免，豁免权

参考例句：

• The law gives public schools immunity from taxation.法律免除公立学校的纳税义务。
• He claims diplomatic immunity to avoid being arrested.他要求外交豁免以便避免被捕。

12 monarchy   

n.君主，最高统治者；君主政体，君主国

参考例句：

• The monarchy in England plays an important role in British culture.英格兰的君主政体在英国文化中起重要作用。
• The power of the monarchy in Britain today is more symbolical than real.今日英国君主的权力多为象徵性的，无甚实际意义。

13 overthrow   

v.推翻，打倒，颠覆；n.推翻，瓦解，颠覆

参考例句：

• After the overthrow of the government,the country was in chaos.政府被推翻后，这个国家处于混乱中。
• The overthrow of his plans left him much discouraged.他的计划的失败使得他很气馁。

14 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

15 ballot   

n.（不记名）投票，投票总数，投票权；vi.投票

参考例句：

• The members have demanded a ballot.会员们要求投票表决。
• The union said they will ballot members on whether to strike.工会称他们将要求会员投票表决是否罢工。

16 statute   

n.成文法，法令，法规；章程，规则，条例

参考例句：

• Protection for the consumer is laid down by statute.保障消费者利益已在法令里作了规定。
• The next section will consider this environmental statute in detail.下一部分将详细论述环境法令的问题。

17 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

18 reassure   

v.使放心，使消除疑虑

参考例句：

• This seemed to reassure him and he continued more confidently.这似乎使他放心一点，于是他更有信心地继续说了下去。
• The airline tried to reassure the customers that the planes were safe.航空公司尽力让乘客相信飞机是安全的。

19 deliberately   

adv.审慎地；蓄意地；故意地

参考例句：

• The girl gave the show away deliberately.女孩故意泄露秘密。
• They deliberately shifted off the argument.他们故意回避这个论点。

20 strictly   

adv.严厉地，严格地；严密地

参考例句：

• His doctor is dieting him strictly.他的医生严格规定他的饮食。
• The guests were seated strictly in order of precedence.客人严格按照地位高低就座。

21 privately   

adv.以私人的身份，悄悄地，私下地

参考例句：

• Some ministers admit privately that unemployment could continue to rise.一些部长私下承认失业率可能继续升高。
• The man privately admits that his motive is profits.那人私下承认他的动机是为了牟利。

22 confidentially   

ad.秘密地，悄悄地

参考例句：

• She was leaning confidentially across the table. 她神神秘秘地从桌子上靠过来。
• Kao Sung-nien and Wang Ch'u-hou talked confidentially in low tones. 高松年汪处厚两人低声密谈。

23 transcripts   

n.抄本（ transcript的名词复数 ）；转写本；文字本；副本

参考例句：

• Like mRNA, both tRNA and rRNA are transcripts of chromosomal DNA. tRNA及rRNA同mRNA一样，都是染色体DNA的转录产物。 来自辞典例句
• You can't take the transfer students'exam without your transcripts. 没有成绩证明书，你就不能参加转学考试。 来自辞典例句

24 defendants   

被告( defendant的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The courts heard that the six defendants had been coerced into making a confession. 法官审判时发现6位被告人曾被迫承认罪行。
• As in courts, the defendants are represented by legal counsel. 与法院相同，被告有辩护律师作为代表。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件

25 amending   

改良，修改，修订( amend的现在分词 )； 改良，修改，修订( amend的第三人称单数 )( amends的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• Amending acts in 1933,1934, and 1935 attempted to help honest debtors rehabilitate themselves. 一九三三年，一九三四年和一九三五年通过的修正案是为了帮助诚实的债务人恢复自己的地位。
• Two ways were used about the error-amending of contour curve. 采用两种方法对凸轮轮廓曲线进行了修正。

26 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。