美国国家公共电台 NPR--Recent legal and political challenges could derail Trump's 2024 presidential run

Recent legal and political challenges could derail Trump¹'s 2024 presidential run

Transcript²

NPR's A Martinez speaks with former GOP Rep. Francis Rooney of Florida about former President Donald Trump's political future, and whether there's a place for him in the Republican Party.

A MART?NEZ, HOST:

All these legal challenges could derail Donald Trump's 2024 presidential run. And as many in the Republican Party appear to be moving away from him, where does this leave him? To help answer this question, I'm joined via Skype by former Republican Congressman³ Francis Rooney of Florida. Welcome.

FRANCIS ROONEY: Thank you for having me on.

MART?NEZ: All right, so the January 6 committee voted unanimously on Monday to recommend those criminal charges against the former president. Short term, long term - what do you think this means for his future, politically?

ROONEY: Well, you know, I think he's like an expired asteroid⁴. He's - his star is fading. After that constitutional comment, I think he lost a lot of people who said, this is a bridge too far. And then the midterms, where only Donald Trump could mess it up this bad for Republicans, amidst inflation and a terrible economy, and we didn't gain any - many seats at all? And he recruited all those bad candidates. I think it's time for some new leadership. And I think people in the Republican Party are starting to realize that there's people like Ron DeSantis, Glenn Youngkin, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott - a lot of really good people out there. We don't need to be burdened by the baggage of Donald Trump.

MART?NEZ: So if you think the comments about the Constitution were bad, do these charges effectively become a backbreaker?

ROONEY: Well, I don't know. You know, I'm not a lawyer, OK? I've studied that January 6 stuff. And I don't know if what he did was legally actionable or not, but I think the committee is right to say it probably wouldn't have happened without him - so, you know, the old but-for proximate cause test. But I don't know if it's legal or not. But it certainly tarnishes⁵ him, I think, with most Americans. Not - maybe not his 30% base, but the rest of the Americans.

MART?NEZ: Thirty percent - you still think he's got that 30%?

ROONEY: He probably - well, down here where I live, he does for sure.

MART?NEZ: Down in Florida?

ROONEY: South Florida, yeah.

MART?NEZ: OK. Now, in addition to the January 6 attack, Trump could also face some charges for mishandling classified documents. If the DOJ decides not to prosecute⁶, though, you think that could mean a kind of a victory for him and his supporters?

ROONEY: I'm not sure the cost of - the classified documents case will stand out. It depends on, maybe, what he took. You know, there have been inadvertent classified document departures or takings or hidings or whatever for years. And - now, he took it to a new level in terms of the volume of documents. But an awful lot of classified documents are really not national security sensitive. And Sandy Berger, under Clinton, took real national security, highly sensitive documents and wasn't prosecuted⁷ at all. Nor was Hillary Clinton, for having her remote server with classified documents on it. So I don't know. That one, to me, is weaker, maybe even than the January 6.

MART?NEZ: We followed up on former Congressman Rooney's comments earlier this morning. And, in fact, Sandy Berger, who was the national security adviser⁸ in the Clinton White House, was prosecuted in 2005 for removing classified materials from the National Archives. He pleaded guilty and was fined and sentenced to probation⁹ and community service. Now we'll return to our conversation.

I know you said you're not a lawyer, but you think that Trump, legally, might not face many or any consequences from either thing.

ROONEY: It's possible, for different reasons, that he might not. I mean, I think that the January 6 case, like you say, like the committee said, I think, accurately¹⁰, that it wouldn't have happened without him. Now, is that proximate cause enough? I don't know. The classified would be more of - nobody else has been prosecuted for that. Why should he?

MART?NEZ: Now, during an appearance on NBC's "Meet the Press NOW" last month, you said this. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "MEET THE PRESS NOW")

ROONEY: The world has moved beyond Trump, but there are a certain number of very conservative Republicans who don't seem to have that figured out yet.

MART?NEZ: You mentioned the 30% that you say that Donald Trump has. It seems like that number is a little bit higher. Why do you think so many conservative Republicans remain loyal to Donald Trump?

ROONEY: Well, when I was campaigning, I would talk to a lot of these very hardcore Trump people. And they would tell me they feel they are the forgotten ones, the people that the culture, the diversity, the progress of our country, our role in the world has left them behind. And they're angry about it. And I think that Bannon and these guys - and Miller¹¹ - realized this and capitalized on it by getting Trump to run. He's the kind of guy that could rev¹² people like that up, you know? He's kind of a demagogue, and that's what they're looking for. Look what's happened all over Latin America. We're getting the same thing from a lot of frustrated¹³ people.

MART?NEZ: So the release of his taxes may be no effect, if any at all, on his GOP followers¹⁴?

ROONEY: Probably not on his GOP followers. But I think a lot of people are going to be interested to find out how much tie - how many ties to Russia he had, if it shows his loans and things. I've heard some pretty negative rumors¹⁵ that he was very indebted to Deutsche Bank and some Russians.

MART?NEZ: You know, we always hear that being president makes that person the head of their political party. Trump's the most recent GOP president, and he's running for president again. Is Donald Trump the head - still the head of the Republican Party?

ROONEY: Well, he still has his base. And that's a scary thought because I don't think he can win. If he somehow were to run - he says he's running, but I don't know about that - and he were somehow to get the nomination¹⁶, I don't think he'll win. I mean, the Democrats¹⁷ would have to come up with somebody horrendous¹⁸ for him to beat them. And we have so many good young Republicans out there, like Glenn Youngkin, like Ron DeSantis, et cetera. We need - it's time to move on to people like that.

MART?NEZ: That's former Republican Congressman Francis Rooney. Thank you for the time.

ROONEY: Thanks for having me on.

(SOUNDBITE OF CHRIS CHRISTODOULOU'S "NOW I AM BECOME DEATH")

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

4 asteroid   

n.小行星；海盘车(动物)

参考例句：

• Astronomers have yet to witness an asteroid impact with another planet.天文学家还没有目击过小行星撞击其它行星。
• It's very unlikely that an asteroid will crash into Earth but the danger exists.小行星撞地球的可能性很小，但这样的危险还是存在的。

5 tarnishes   

污点，瑕疵，无光泽( tarnish的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Brass tarnishes quickly in wet weather. 天气潮湿时黄铜很快会失去光泽。
• This metal tarnishes easily. 这种金属易变色。

6 prosecute   

vt.告发；进行；vi.告发，起诉，作检察官

参考例句：

• I am trying my best to prosecute my duties.我正在尽力履行我的职责。
• Is there enough evidence to prosecute?有没有起诉的足够证据？

7 prosecuted   

a.被起诉的

参考例句：

• The editors are being prosecuted for obscenity. 编辑因刊载污秽文字而被起诉。
• The company was prosecuted for breaching the Health and Safety Act. 这家公司被控违反《卫生安全条例》。

8 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

9 probation   

n.缓刑(期)，(以观后效的)察看；试用(期)

参考例句：

• The judge did not jail the young man,but put him on probation for a year.法官没有把那个年轻人关进监狱，而且将他缓刑察看一年。
• His salary was raised by 800 yuan after his probation.试用期满以后，他的工资增加了800元。

10 accurately   

adv.准确地，精确地

参考例句：

• It is hard to hit the ball accurately.准确地击中球很难。
• Now scientists can forecast the weather accurately.现在科学家们能准确地预报天气。

11 miller   

n.磨坊主

参考例句：

• Every miller draws water to his own mill.磨坊主都往自己磨里注水。
• The skilful miller killed millions of lions with his ski.技术娴熟的磨坊主用雪橇杀死了上百万头狮子。

12 rev   

v.发动机旋转，加快速度

参考例句：

• It's his job to rev up the audience before the show starts.他要负责在表演开始前鼓动观众的热情。
• Don't rev the engine so hard.别让发动机转得太快。

13 frustrated   

adj.挫败的，失意的，泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的过去式和过去分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's very easy to get frustrated in this job. 这个工作很容易令人懊恼。
• The bad weather frustrated all our hopes of going out. 恶劣的天气破坏了我们出行的愿望。 来自《简明英汉词典》

14 followers   

追随者( follower的名词复数 )； 用户； 契据的附面； 从动件

参考例句：

• the followers of Mahatma Gandhi 圣雄甘地的拥护者
• The reformer soon gathered a band of followers round him. 改革者很快就获得一群追随者支持他。

15 rumors   

n.传闻( rumor的名词复数 )；[古]名誉；咕哝；[古]喧嚷v.传闻( rumor的第三人称单数 )；[古]名誉；咕哝；[古]喧嚷

参考例句：

• Rumors have it that the school was burned down. 有谣言说学校给烧掉了。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Rumors of a revolt were afloat. 叛变的谣言四起。 来自《简明英汉词典》

16 nomination   

n.提名，任命，提名权

参考例句：

• John is favourite to get the nomination for club president.约翰最有希望被提名为俱乐部主席。
• Few people pronounced for his nomination.很少人表示赞成他的提名。

17 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

18 horrendous   

adj.可怕的，令人惊惧的

参考例句：

• He described it as the most horrendous experience of his life.他形容这是自己一生中最可怕的经历。
• The mining industry in China has a horrendous safety record.中国的煤矿工业具有令人不安的安全记录。