美国国家公共电台 NPR--Donald Trump says FBI agents raided his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida

Donald Trump¹ says FBI agents raided his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida

Transcript²

NPR's Leila Fadel talks to Kimberly Wehle, law professor and author of How To Read The Constitution And Why, about the reported FBI raid on former President Donald Trump's Florida home.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Former President Donald Trump says his Mar-a-Lago home in Palm Beach, Fla., was searched by the FBI. The FBI and Department of Justice declined to comment. But what we do know is that the Justice Department started investigating in February after the National Archives said about 15 boxes of material from the Trump White House wrongfully ended up in Florida. For more, we're talking to Kimberly Wehle, a visiting law professor at American University and the author of "How To Read The Constitution - And Why." Kim, thanks for being back on the show.

KIMBERLY WEHLE: Good morning, Leila.

FADEL: Good morning. So let's start with just how unusual an action like this is to happen to a former president.

WEHLE: Well, it's kind of ironic³ that yesterday was the day former President Richard Nixon resigned the White House and was also the first time in American history that a former president was - his home was searched by the Department of Justice and the FBI, based on, under the Fourth Amendment⁴, there had to have been evidence that there was material relating to a crime on the premises⁵. That's, you know, a very, very big deal historically.

FADEL: So that's the probable cause they had to have in order to go search the property.

WEHLE: Correct. Yeah. It means a judge signed off on this, as did Christopher Wray, the Trump appointee at the FBI, as did probably Merrick Garland and many people along the way. This was not some kind of willy-nilly political hunt. This was something that demonstrates that the system of justice as established by the framers under the Fourth Amendment is functioning.

FADEL: Now, you mentioned the irony⁶ of Nixon resigning in 1974 on this day. The Presidential Records Act was passed after Watergate. Can you walk us through why presidents can't take their own notes and documents with them when they leave the White House?

WEHLE: Yeah. So many major pieces of legislation that are about accountability for the White House to the American people were passed after Watergate, including the Presidential Records Act, which establishes public ownership of presidential records. They belong to the people, not to any one person. And it places responsibility for managing those records with the incumbent⁷ president. And it mandates⁸ that even nonofficial electronic messages regarding official business be turned over to the archivist immediately when the president leaves office. And of course, there's also - there's no mechanism⁹ for actually enforcing the Presidential Records Act, but there are a number of criminal statutes¹⁰ that make it illegal, criminal, to conceal¹¹ or destroy federal records.

So I think those are probably implicated¹² here, even though, no doubt, they weren't designed for presidents - with presidents in mind.

FADEL: So what constitutes personal papers that you can take home in presidential documents?

WEHLE: Well, that - you know, as I mentioned, it's official business. So to the extent to which the president presumably is, you know, talking to a spouse¹³, a family member or friends about something unrelated to his role under Article II of the Constitution, that wouldn't count. But here, reportedly, there were documents that were classified as classified communications, as well as things like missives between him and North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un.

So it doesn't - it's not that difficult to understand why those kinds of things - and that's all we know publicly - shouldn't have been taken out of the White House. That was illegal. And it looks like the Justice Department probably isn't just following up on the fact that those documents were removed but is probably interested in knowing what happened to any that were not returned, if that is the case.

FADEL: Now, do former presidents of the U.S. get any special protection from this kind of investigative action?

WEHLE: This is - there's no precedent¹⁴ for this. We know there is an internal DOJ memo¹⁵ for sitting presidents that says that prosecutions¹⁶ have to be stalled or halted while they're in office. That's not a law. It's not in the Constitution. But it is an official DOJ policy. That doesn't protect former presidents, and even executive privilege doesn't protect former presidents, as we saw. It's actually, in this moment, Joe Biden that controls that issue, not Donald Trump. So he really is like a regular citizen, except for the massive political implications, and those cannot be understated here.

FADEL: And like you mentioned, there are no historic parallels here to compare this to.

WEHLE: No, and that's classic Trump, right? There's so many - I mean, a lot of people say, well, there's no precedent for this. Well, there was, you know, no precedent for ferrying documents out of the White House this way that really belong to the people. And archivists need to be able to establish what - as a record, what happened.

FADEL: That's Kimberly Wehle. She's a visiting law professor at American University. Thank you so much for your time.

WEHLE: Thanks for having me, Leila.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 ironic   

adj.讽刺的，有讽刺意味的，出乎意料的

参考例句：

• That is a summary and ironic end.那是一个具有概括性和讽刺意味的结局。
• People used to call me Mr Popularity at high school,but they were being ironic.人们中学时常把我称作“万人迷先生”，但他们是在挖苦我。

4 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

5 premises   

n.建筑物，房屋

参考例句：

• According to the rules,no alcohol can be consumed on the premises.按照规定，场内不准饮酒。
• All repairs are done on the premises and not put out.全部修缮都在家里进行，不用送到外面去做。

6 irony   

n.反语，冷嘲；具有讽刺意味的事，嘲弄

参考例句：

• She said to him with slight irony.她略带嘲讽地对他说。
• In her voice we could sense a certain tinge of irony.从她的声音里我们可以感到某种讥讽的意味。

7 incumbent   

adj.成为责任的，有义务的；现任的，在职的

参考例句：

• He defeated the incumbent governor by a large plurality.他以压倒多数票击败了现任州长。
• It is incumbent upon you to warn them.你有责任警告他们。

8 mandates   

托管（mandate的第三人称单数形式）

参考例句：

• Individual mandates would require all people to purchase health insurance. 个人托管要求所有人都要购买健康保险。
• While I agree with those benefits, I'm not a supporter of mandates. 我同意上述好处，我不是授权软件的支持者。

9 mechanism   

n.机械装置；机构，结构

参考例句：

• The bones and muscles are parts of the mechanism of the body.骨骼和肌肉是人体的组成部件。
• The mechanism of the machine is very complicated.这台机器的结构是非常复杂的。

10 statutes   

成文法( statute的名词复数 )； 法令； 法规； 章程

参考例句：

• The numerous existing statutes are complicated and poorly coordinated. 目前繁多的法令既十分复杂又缺乏快调。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法
• Each agency is also restricted by the particular statutes governing its activities. 各个机构的行为也受具体法令限制。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

11 conceal   

v.隐藏，隐瞒，隐蔽

参考例句：

• He had to conceal his identity to escape the police.为了躲避警方，他只好隐瞒身份。
• He could hardly conceal his joy at his departure.他几乎掩饰不住临行时的喜悦。

12 implicated   

adj.密切关联的；牵涉其中的

参考例句：

• These groups are very strongly implicated in the violence. 这些组织与这起暴力事件有着极大的关联。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Having the stolen goods in his possession implicated him in the robbery. 因藏有赃物使他涉有偷盗的嫌疑。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》

13 spouse   

n.配偶(指夫或妻)

参考例句：

• Her spouse will come to see her on Sunday.她的丈夫星期天要来看她。
• What is the best way to keep your spouse happy in the marriage?在婚姻中保持配偶幸福的最好方法是什么？

14 precedent   

n.先例，前例；惯例；adj.在前的，在先的

参考例句：

• Is there a precedent for what you want me to do?你要我做的事有前例可援吗？
• This is a wonderful achievement without precedent in Chinese history.这是中国历史上亘古未有的奇绩。

15 memo   

n.照会，备忘录；便笺；通知书；规章

参考例句：

• Do you want me to send the memo out?您要我把这份备忘录分发出去吗？
• Can you type a memo for me?您能帮我打一份备忘录吗？

16 prosecutions   

起诉( prosecution的名词复数 )； 原告； 实施； 从事

参考例句：

• It is the duty of the Attorney-General to institute prosecutions. 检察总长负责提起公诉。
• Since World War II, the government has been active in its antitrust prosecutions. 第二次世界大战以来，政府积极地进行着反对托拉斯的检举活动。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件