美国国家公共电台 NPR--Banned Books: Maia Kobabe explores gender identity in 'Gender Queer'

Banned Books: Maia Kobabe explores gender¹ identity in 'Gender Queer'

Transcript²

Gender Queer cover.

Oni Press

This discussion with Maia Kobabe is part of a series of interviews with — and essays by — authors who are finding their books being challenged and banned in the U.S.

Author Maia Kobabe explores gender identity in the 2019 graphic³ memoir⁴ Gender Queer, which is centered on coming out to friends and family.

"I wrote it sort of towards an audience who I knew, like, loved me and supported me and knew me and was very sympathetic to me," Kobabe told NPR. "And I think that let me write without any, really, fear."

Kobabe grew up in Northern California. In illustrated⁵ panels in the book, readers learn about Kobabe feeling physically⁶ different from a young age but unable to openly express it. The book has been praised in some circles for how it talks about identity — but it's also drawn⁷ a lot of rebuke⁸ from people who cite its sexually explicit⁹ nature and the illustrations. Gender Queer has been banned from shelves in more states than any other book.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

On feeling different as a kid

I was in elementary school in the '90s. Then I was in high school in the early 2000s, and there was a lot less representation, and there was a lot less people who were publicly out. And I just felt for so many years — I was like, I just feel like there's some stuff going on with me about gender. I can't decide if I'm a girl who feels kind of like a boy or like a gay man trapped in a girl's body or if I'm, like, a boy but in a very feminine way, or, like, am I a lesbian? It was just very confusing. And I just kept feeling like I was trying on, like, clothes that didn't fit. And it was just — the biggest sort of concern of my specifically teenage years and early 20s was just this ... what am I? Where do I fit in all of this?

On traumatic experiences, like an annual gynecological exam

One of the things that I sometimes hear from cis female readers is, 'thank you so much for writing about how kind of hard that was for you 'cause it's also really hard for me, and I never hear anyone talk about that.' ... And I've had readers who have never struggled with their gender or questioned their gender really relate to that part of the book. And also some of the stuff about, like, periods and sort of the shame around periods and all of that stuff is not limited to people who are questioning their gender. But, yeah, the pap smear¹⁰ exam scenes — there are two of them in the book — they were hard to write. Those were kind of the only scenes that when I sat down at my desk to draw them, I was like, I don't want to have to live in this memory again for the amount of time it's going to take me to draw these pages. This is an unpleasant experience, to be reliving this. I mean, half of it's kind of like psychological. I don't enjoy being reminded about this part of my body. And half of it is just literal physical pain.

On the reaction from her aunt, who is a lesbian, to her coming out

You know, she was the first person I really knew very closely who was out as queer. So when I was coming out as nonbinary, I assumed like, OK, cool, of all of my extended family, she will get it the most. She'll immediately support me. She'll immediately have my back. And then it ended up not quite being the case. But I think part of it was that at the time that she came out as a lesbian feminist¹¹ specifically, it was a real turn towards women, towards womanhood, towards centering women as sort of the most important relationships in her life, both romantic but also sort of, like, political. Like, I'm voting as a woman. I am moving through the world politically as a woman.

And I think the idea that I was doing a thing that to her felt like a rejection¹² of womanhood was really, really difficult because she felt like, well, women are, like, the best thing in the entire world. And being a woman is very joyful¹³ and celebratory and wonderful. And it's brought me friendships and community and family and — very important things into her life. And I think when I was first coming out, I wasn't saying womanhood does not have value or womanhood is not like worthwhile and wonderful — an important thing to be and to celebrate and to find strength in. I was just saying, like, this is a very beautiful gift that has been offered to me, but it doesn't fit. And because of that, I'm going to set it down.

On whether the level of ire directed at the book was anticipated

I braced¹⁴ myself for a little bit of that. But when the book came out, what it was met with initially¹⁵ was just this absolute wave of love and support. And the pushback didn't come until late 2021. And at that point, I think what mostly surprised me was the timing¹⁶ of it — and then also the level of it, and then following that, the longevity¹⁷ of it.

On criticism of the book

I drew as much as I felt like I needed to tell the story that I was trying to tell and get the points across that I was trying to make. And I honestly think the book is a lot less explicit than it could be or would have been if written by a different author. The topic of gender touches on identity and touches on sexuality, and it touches on all of these things. And it's hard to fully¹⁸ explain, I think, how a gender identity can impact every facet¹⁹ of life as an adult without touching²⁰ at least a little bit on sexuality. And so I wanted to not shy away from that.

1 gender   

n.（生理上的）性，（名词、代词等的）性

参考例句：

• French differs from English in having gender for all nouns.法语不同于英语，所有的名词都有性。
• Women are sometimes denied opportunities solely because of their gender.妇女有时仅仅因为性别而无法获得种种机会。

2 transcript   

n.抄本，誊本，副本，肄业证书

参考例句：

• A transcript of the tapes was presented as evidence in court.一份录音带的文字本作为证据被呈交法庭。
• They wouldn't let me have a transcript of the interview.他们拒绝给我一份采访的文字整理稿。

3 graphic   

adj.生动的，形象的，绘画的，文字的，图表的

参考例句：

• The book gave a graphic description of the war.这本书生动地描述了战争的情况。
• Distinguish important text items in lists with graphic icons.用图标来区分重要的文本项。

4 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

5 illustrated   

adj. 有插图的，列举的 动词illustrate的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• His lecture was illustrated with slides taken during the expedition. 他在讲演中使用了探险时拍摄到的幻灯片。
• The manufacturing Methods: Will be illustrated in the next chapter. 制作方法将在下一章说明。

6 physically   

adj.物质上，体格上，身体上，按自然规律

参考例句：

• He was out of sorts physically,as well as disordered mentally.他浑身不舒服，心绪也很乱。
• Every time I think about it I feel physically sick.一想起那件事我就感到极恶心。

7 drawn   

v.拖，拉，拔出；adj.憔悴的，紧张的

参考例句：

• All the characters in the story are drawn from life.故事中的所有人物都取材于生活。
• Her gaze was drawn irresistibly to the scene outside.她的目光禁不住被外面的风景所吸引。

8 rebuke   

v.指责，非难，斥责 [反]praise

参考例句：

• He had to put up with a smart rebuke from the teacher.他不得不忍受老师的严厉指责。
• Even one minute's lateness would earn a stern rebuke.哪怕迟到一分钟也将受到严厉的斥责。

9 explicit   

adj.详述的，明确的；坦率的；显然的

参考例句：

• She was quite explicit about why she left.她对自己离去的原因直言不讳。
• He avoids the explicit answer to us.他避免给我们明确的回答。

10 smear   

v.涂抹；诽谤，玷污；n.污点；诽谤，污蔑

参考例句：

• He has been spreading false stories in an attempt to smear us.他一直在散布谎言企图诽谤我们。
• There's a smear on your shirt.你衬衫上有个污点。

11 feminist   

adj.主张男女平等的，女权主义的

参考例句：

• She followed the feminist movement.她支持女权运动。
• From then on,feminist studies on literature boomed.从那时起，男女平等受教育的现象开始迅速兴起。

12 rejection   

n.拒绝，被拒，抛弃，被弃

参考例句：

• He decided not to approach her for fear of rejection.他因怕遭拒绝决定不再去找她。
• The rejection plunged her into the dark depths of despair.遭到拒绝使她陷入了绝望的深渊。

13 joyful   

adj.欢乐的，令人欢欣的

参考例句：

• She was joyful of her good result of the scientific experiments.她为自己的科学实验取得好成果而高兴。
• They were singing and dancing to celebrate this joyful occasion.他们唱着、跳着庆祝这令人欢乐的时刻。

14 braced   

adj.拉牢的v.支住( brace的过去式和过去分词 )；撑牢；使自己站稳；振作起来

参考例句：

• They braced up the old house with balks of timber. 他们用梁木加固旧房子。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The house has a wooden frame which is braced with brick. 这幢房子是木结构的砖瓦房。 来自《简明英汉词典》

15 initially   

adv.最初，开始

参考例句：

• The ban was initially opposed by the US.这一禁令首先遭到美国的反对。
• Feathers initially developed from insect scales.羽毛最初由昆虫的翅瓣演化而来。

16 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。

17 longevity   

n.长命；长寿

参考例句：

• Good habits promote longevity.良好的习惯能增长寿命。
• Human longevity runs in families.人类的长寿具有家族遗传性。

18 fully   

adv.完全地，全部地，彻底地；充分地

参考例句：

• The doctor asked me to breathe in,then to breathe out fully.医生让我先吸气，然后全部呼出。
• They soon became fully integrated into the local community.他们很快就完全融入了当地人的圈子。

19 facet   

n.(问题等的)一个方面；(多面体的)面

参考例句：

• He has perfected himself in every facet of his job.他已使自己对工作的各个方面都得心应手。
• Every facet of college life is fascinating.大学生活的每个方面都令人兴奋。

20 touching   

adj.动人的，使人感伤的

参考例句：

• It was a touching sight.这是一幅动人的景象。
• His letter was touching.他的信很感人。