美国国家公共电台 NPR VIDEO: Beto O'Rourke Wants To Ban, Confiscate Some Guns. Texas Voters Want Details

 

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

How viable¹ is Beto O'Rourke's plan to confiscate² assault-style weapons from gun owners? That's what two Texans wanted to know from the Democratic presidential candidate. They met with O'Rourke and NPR's Michel Martin for NPR's series Off Script in which undecided voters question the candidates. They met at L&J's Cafe in El Paso, where O'Rourke grew up.

BETO O'ROURKE: Kind of a special night out, get to come down to L&J Cafe. And then since then, as we're raising our kids, we bring them here. And then when we have visitors from out of town, we'll often bring them here to introduce them to the food, the cuisine⁴ of El Paso, Texas, and the U.S.-Mexico border.

INSKEEP: After a mass shooting in El Paso that left 22 people dead, O'Rourke released a detailed⁵ gun control plan, which included some mandatory⁶ gun buybacks. Voters Ruben Sandoval, who is a civics teacher, and Connie Martinez, who's a college student and first-time voter, liked the plan but questioned how it would work.

CONNIE MARTINEZ: How do you plan to do this? Like, what kind of reform do you have? How would you get the opposing side to agree to participate in the buyback program?

MICHEL MARTIN, BYLINE⁷: Let me follow up on that, Connie, if you don't mind me backing you up on this one.

MARTINEZ: No, you're fine.

MARTIN: I think the second part of Connie's question is important, which is how do you persuade people who are not already persuaded like she is? And I want to go back to what you said at the September debate where you said, hell yes, we're coming for your AR-15s. You won the moment, but in some ways, did you hurt the cause? Because you just got people's backs up. I mean, you can tell that people are already fundraising on this. A state rep said - basically dared you to come get his gun. So what about it?

O'ROURKE: It's really interesting. The day after that debate, I was still in the Houston area, and a gentleman stopped me in a convenience store. And he said, look, Beto, I'm as Republican as they come. I own an AR-15. I will likely never vote for a Democrat³, including you. But what you said on that debate stage last night is exactly how I feel and precisely⁸ what I think this country needs to do. What I found from that gentleman in Houston, Texas, that Republican, is that the political will is there. And they just polled, actually, in Texas last week, found that 49% of people in our state - this proud, but I would argue, responsible gun-owning state - believe in a mandatory assault weapon buyback. Only 36% of Texans - this is Texas - oppose that. So to your question, Michel, I really think the public sentiment is there. The popular will is there. It's just looking for leadership that will reflect that, and I think we provided that.

MARTIN: OK. Ruben, you have a follow-up on that?

RUBEN SANDOVAL: I do. One of the courses that I teach - I teach Texas government and also state and local government. The question I have is, how would you get around the Supreme⁹ Court rulings? A mandatory buyback program, which seemed to be deemed to be unconstitutional, and as late as 2016, the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals also included assault rifles to be part of the arms that are protected by the Second Amendment¹⁰. How would you be able to get around that?

O'ROURKE: Of course, the Constitution discriminates¹¹ amongst weapons, and you have no lesser¹² conservative light than former Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who made the case that the Second Amendment, like every constitutional guarantee and right, is not unlimited¹³. You couldn't drive a tank, for example, down the street under the Second Amendment or shoulder a bazooka.

SANDOVAL: Yes.

O'ROURKE: In under three minutes in a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, 22 people were killed. When the Second Amendment was adopted and ratified¹⁴, it took three minutes to reload your musket¹⁵. I don't know that the Founding Fathers, the framers of the Constitution, those who pursued that Second Amendment and got it ratified, could have envisioned a weapon designed for war, for use on a battlefield, whose high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, expends¹⁶ all of its kinetic¹⁷ energy inside of you to destroy your insides. And I've met with the trauma¹⁸ surgeons at Del Sol and UMC, many of whom have served at William Beaumont Army Medical Center and have been deployed¹⁹ in Iraq and Afghanistan. They say these are wounds of war that we are treating.

MARTIN: Congressman²⁰, with all due respect, I don't think that answers the question. I think everybody understands your passion about the issue. But the question is, with the conservative courts, not just the conservative Supreme Court, and conservative lower courts, which has been an intentional²¹ project of the Republicans in Congress for years, how do you get around the understanding...

O'ROURKE: What is the question? Is the question whether or not this is constitutional?

MARTIN: Yes.

O'ROURKE: My answer is yes, and I just made the case. Is the question should we not pursue public policy or legislation for fear of the current composition of the courts? My answer to that is no. Do the right thing while you have time to do the right thing. And I think, as we now know, the majority of America supports this proposal. A plurality of Texans in what is thought to be a very red and certainly very proud gun-owning state support this proposal as well. So I know that this is the right thing to do. I know America supports this. You have a very good question about what is its fate when it is challenged in the courts of law. We don't know. But fear of that uncertainty²² shouldn't prevent us from doing the right thing for all those Americans whose lives we want to save in a country that loses 40,000 people a year to gun violence. No other country comes close.

SANDOVAL: I just want to do a follow-up.

MARTIN: One quick follow-up.

SANDOVAL: And I agree with you that the fear should not be the motivating factor on our public policy. But I guess what I wanted to add was perhaps maybe a more gradual approach with addressing the issue of assault rifles. For example, like, maybe moving the age up to 21 rather than 18 or...

MARTIN: Can I stop you, Ruben?

SANDOVAL: Sure.

MARTIN: Why do you ask that? Are you worried that the proposals he's laid out just aren't realistic?

SANDOVAL: I feel that if - taking that position would probably only embolden²³ the other side to use it as a talking point to say that Democrats²⁴ are going to destroy the Second Amendment. Democrats are coming for your guns and so on. So to me, a more gradual approach would be more effective to see...

MARTIN: OK. Let's have...

SANDOVAL: ...And shift the mood of the country in that direction.

MARTIN: Let's let him answer that. That's...

SANDOVAL: Go ahead. Please.

MARTIN: Go ahead.

O'ROURKE: So, Ruben, I think many of the proposals that you just laid out, like closing all the loopholes in the background check system right now, all these different ways that you can buy a gun without having your background checked to ensure that we keep our fellow Americans safe, let's do that. And let's not do that to the exclusion²⁵ of doing anything else. I think whatever progress we can achieve, we should seize it the moment that we can. But I do think we have to define what the goal is and what we know will make America safer. And that's what I'm trying to do with our proposal. I like your question, and I think that is possible.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOXHOLE'S "SPECTACLE")

INSKEEP: Real questions, real discussion. Presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke in conversation with voters and NPR's Michel Martin. For video of this conversation and more about what voters want to hear from candidates, go to npr.org/offscript.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOXHOLE'S "SPECTACLE")

1 viable   

adj.可行的，切实可行的，能活下去的

参考例句：

• The scheme is economically viable.这个计划从经济效益来看是可行的。
• The economy of the country is not viable.这个国家经济是难以维持的。

2 confiscate   

v.没收(私人财产)，把…充公

参考例句：

• The police have the right to confiscate any forbidden objects they find.如发现违禁货物，警方有权查扣。
• Did the teacher confiscate your toy?老师没收你的玩具了吗？

3 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

4 cuisine   

n.烹调，烹饪法

参考例句：

• This book is the definitive guide to world cuisine.这本书是世界美食的权威指南。
• This restaurant is renowned for its cuisine.这家餐馆以其精美的饭菜而闻名。

5 detailed   

adj.详细的，详尽的，极注意细节的，完全的

参考例句：

• He had made a detailed study of the terrain.他对地形作了缜密的研究。
• A detailed list of our publications is available on request.我们的出版物有一份详细的目录备索。

6 mandatory   

adj.命令的；强制的；义务的；n.受托者

参考例句：

• It's mandatory to pay taxes.缴税是义务性的。
• There is no mandatory paid annual leave in the U.S.美国没有强制带薪年假。

7 byline   

n.署名；v.署名

参考例句：

• His byline was absent as well.他的署名也不见了。
• We wish to thank the author of this article which carries no byline.我们要感谢这篇文章的那位没有署名的作者。

8 precisely   

adv.恰好，正好，精确地，细致地

参考例句：

• It's precisely that sort of slick sales-talk that I mistrust.我不相信的正是那种油腔滑调的推销宣传。
• The man adjusted very precisely.那个人调得很准。

9 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

10 amendment   

n.改正，修正，改善，修正案

参考例句：

• The amendment was rejected by 207 voters to 143.这项修正案以207票对143票被否决。
• The Opposition has tabled an amendment to the bill.反对党已经就该议案提交了一项修正条款。

11 discriminates   

分别，辨别，区分( discriminate的第三人称单数 )； 歧视，有差别地对待

参考例句：

• The new law discriminates against lower-paid workers. 这条新法律歧视低工资的工人。
• One test governs state legislation that discriminates against interstate commerce. 一个检验约束歧视州际商业的州立法。 来自英汉非文学 - 环境法 - 环境法

12 lesser   

adj.次要的，较小的；adv.较小地，较少地

参考例句：

• Kept some of the lesser players out.不让那些次要的球员参加联赛。
• She has also been affected,but to a lesser degree.她也受到波及，但程度较轻。

13 unlimited   

adj.无限的，不受控制的，无条件的

参考例句：

• They flew over the unlimited reaches of the Arctic.他们飞过了茫茫无边的北极上空。
• There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris.在技术方面自以为是会很危险。

14 ratified   

v.批准，签认（合约等）( ratify的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• The treaty was declared invalid because it had not been ratified. 条约没有得到批准，因此被宣布无效。
• The treaty was ratified by all the member states. 这个条约得到了所有成员国的批准。

15 musket   

n.滑膛枪

参考例句：

• I hunted with a musket two years ago.两年前我用滑膛枪打猎。
• So some seconds passed,till suddenly Joyce whipped up his musket and fired.又过了几秒钟，突然，乔伊斯端起枪来开了火。

16 expends   

v.花费( expend的第三人称单数 )；使用（钱等）做某事；用光；耗尽

参考例句：

• The commercial value height also expends demand how many! 商业价值高低也就是消费需求多少！ 来自互联网
• The stimulation expends basis, also lies in enhances the resident income. 刺激消费的根本，还在于提高居民收入。 来自互联网

17 kinetic   

adj.运动的；动力学的

参考例句：

• There exist many sources of energy both potential and kinetic.存在着许多势能和动能的能源。
• The kinetic theory of gases is the best known example.气体动力学理论就是最有名的例子。

18 trauma   

n.外伤，精神创伤

参考例句：

• Counselling is helping him work through this trauma.心理辅导正帮助他面对痛苦。
• The phobia may have its root in a childhood trauma.恐惧症可能源于童年时期的创伤。

19 deployed   

（尤指军事行动）使展开( deploy的过去式和过去分词 )； 施展； 部署； 有效地利用

参考例句：

• Tanks have been deployed all along the front line. 沿整个前线已部署了坦克。
• The artillery was deployed to bear on the fort. 火炮是对着那个碉堡部署的。

20 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

21 intentional   

adj.故意的，有意（识）的

参考例句：

• Let me assure you that it was not intentional.我向你保证那不是故意的。
• His insult was intentional.他的侮辱是有意的。

22 uncertainty   

n.易变，靠不住，不确知，不确定的事物

参考例句：

• Her comments will add to the uncertainty of the situation.她的批评将会使局势更加不稳定。
• After six weeks of uncertainty,the strain was beginning to take its toll.6个星期的忐忑不安后，压力开始产生影响了。

23 embolden   

v.给…壮胆，鼓励

参考例句：

• Emboldened by the wine,he went over to introduce himself to her.他借酒壮胆，走上前去向她作自我介绍。
• The Prime Minister was steadily emboldened by the discovery that he faced no opposition.发现自己并未遭到反对，首相渐渐有了信心。

24 democrats   

n.民主主义者，民主人士( democrat的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The Democrats held a pep rally on Capitol Hill yesterday. 民主党昨天在国会山召开了竞选誓师大会。
• The democrats organize a filibuster in the senate. 民主党党员组织了阻挠议事。 来自《简明英汉词典》

25 exclusion   

n.拒绝，排除，排斥，远足，远途旅行

参考例句：

• Don't revise a few topics to the exclusion of all others.不要修改少数论题以致排除所有其他的。
• He plays golf to the exclusion of all other sports.他专打高尔夫球，其他运动一概不参加。