美国国家公共电台 NPR Lindy West: 'The Witches Are Coming' — And They Are Rightfully Angry

 

NOEL KING, HOST:

The writer Lindy West made her name with these hilarious¹, scalding critiques of American culture. Her 2016 memoir², "Shrill," was a best-seller. It's also now a series on Hulu. In a new book, West takes on misogyny, asks what did the #MeToo movement really change and examines what it means to be a woman who won't be silenced. Lindy West's new book is called "The Witches Are Coming."

Lindy, thanks so much for being with us.

LINDY WEST: Thank you so much for having me.

KING: So who are these witches?

WEST: Well, it's sort of an attempt to reclaim³ a couple of terms that have been used to hurt us. And by us, I guess I mean women, feminists⁴, anyone who expresses unpopular opinions. Because for a long time, a certain set of men have called women like me witches to sort of silence and discredit⁵ us. And then there's this other trend that we see a lot. When a man is accused of something bad, you know, if he is held sort of 1% accountable, people come out of the woodwork crying that this is a witch hunt, that it's not fair, that we can't just go around accusing people of things. And I got to thinking that it's not fair, really, to us...

KING: (Laughter).

WEST: ...That we have to be both witches and witch hunters. And so the title of the book is an attempt to reclaim both of those terms. Like, fine. If this is a witch hunt then I'm a witch, and I'm hunting you.

KING: Let me ask you about some of the themes that are running through this book. One of them is anger. You write that women are seething⁶.

WEST: Yeah. I mean, I think part of the way that we socialize girls to be nice and compliant⁷ and to be caregivers and to sort of put themselves second creates a lot of frustration⁸, especially since I think women's anger is stigmatized¹⁰. People respond very, very negatively to women's anger, and there are a lot of negative consequences for showing your anger. And so I think that all of that cumulatively¹¹ has led to a great frustration, a frustration at centuries of inequality and injustice¹². And on top of that, being told that we shouldn't be angry about it and we certainly shouldn't express that anger. I personally have found it very empowering to allow myself to be angry.

KING: But you've gotten so much pushback. I mean, you've been trolled online. You've been harassed¹³. You've had terrible things said about you. When I think about empowering, I don't think about a whole tsunami¹⁴ of angry men calling me names and threatening me. It's scary. It sounds terrifying.

WEST: I've had my home address posted online. I've had my phone number posted online, my email address. But, you know, I happen to be very fortunate in that I have a safe and stable home life. I have a sort of foundation where I feel like I can weather that kind of abuse and take it as confirmation¹⁵ that I'm saying something that needs to be said. There's something validating¹⁶ even in that.

KING: As you've become more of a public figure, as you've become better known, you have gotten to meet people that you once really admired. I'm talking, in this case, about Adam Carolla and Roseanne. And you've found you don't really like these people. You find them toxic¹⁷ or mean, in the case of - Roseanne said something mean about you on Twitter, didn't she?

WEST: Many times. (Laughter).

KING: Many times. OK.

WEST: (Laughter).

KING: So you actually have a chapter called "Never Meet Your Heroes" (ph) or "Always Meet Your Heroes" - I can't remember.

WEST: I think it's "Always Meet Your Heroes."

KING: "Always Meet Your Heroes." But then in this book, they do let you down.

WEST: What I mean by always meet your heroes is, it's a responsibility to pay attention to and think critically about whose work you're supporting and what sort of influence they have on the world at large. Because I do think that that has ripple¹⁸ effects. And that's kind of what #MeToo has been about, you know? It's like, what do we do? What do we do with Michael Jackson?

KING: Yeah.

WEST: What do we do with Woody Allen? It's a really complicated, really important thing to engage with right now.

KING: What is your answer to that, though?

WEST: I think there's this impulse right now to be very stringent¹⁹ about everything and say this person's problematic and you have to cancel them and avoid them forever. Obviously, some things are sort of beyond the pale. But there are a lot of kinds of mistakes that can, I think, be atoned²⁰ for. And I don't know the answer. I don't know the exact road map. That's kind of what we're figuring out in this moment. It's, like, what is the road to atonement?

One thing that's happened a lot since #MeToo is, again, anytime there's any sort of consequence for someone who has done something bad, within five seconds, there's this sort of outpouring of concern for that person and, how are they going to come back, and how are they going to get their career back, and they've lost so much and it's not fair. And my answer to that is, I don't know, why don't you troubleshoot it? See what works. (Laughter). I don't think that it's feminists' responsibility or victims' responsibility to lay out the steps to getting your life back. I think, why don't you try things until people forgive you?

KING: Has anyone done it well, do you think?

WEST: I don't know. Maybe. That's a great question. No one springs to mind. (Laughter).

KING: Yeah. Me, either.

WEST: (Laughter). But at the same time, has anyone really lost much? You know, has anyone actually gone away? I know that there are court cases pending²¹ for various people. I think that the concern is sometimes a little bit disingenuous²² and overblown. Because, for example, Louis C.K. just announced - I don't know, a national stand-up tour? Like, what are these dire²³ consequences that everyone is so worried about? What does it even mean to be cancelled if you're back on the road five minutes later?

KING: You write about your family a bit. You're a stepmom to two girls. How old are they?

WEST: They are 16 and 18.

KING: Sixteen and 18. OK. So what is it like to be raising a 16-year-old girl and an 18-year-old girl in this world where, everywhere you look, you see evidence of misogyny?

WEST: I mean, it's terrifying. (Laughter).

KING: Yeah?

WEST: It's absolutely (laughter) terrifying. But it's also wonderful. And for the most part, they're so smart and they're responsible, and they're politically engaged in a way that I wasn't when I was a teenager. And so yes, we're putting them out there into this world that's full of misogyny. But it's better than it was when I was their age because there was so much that we didn't talk about then that we didn't know how to articulate yet or that wasn't mainstream²⁴.

You know, feminism has been mainstreamed to a staggering degree relative to where it was when I was their age. My daughters are not afraid to call themselves feminists whatsoever²⁵. And not that that stigma⁹ doesn't still exist, but they're certainly not - (laughter), they're certainly not afraid of it.

KING: Lindy West, thank you so much for joining us.

WEST: Thank you so much for having me.

KING: Lindy's new book is called "The Witches Are Coming."

1 hilarious   

adj.充满笑声的，欢闹的；[反]depressed

参考例句：

• The party got quite hilarious after they brought more wine.在他们又拿来更多的酒之后，派对变得更加热闹起来。
• We stop laughing because the show was so hilarious.我们笑个不停，因为那个节目太搞笑了。

2 memoir   

n.[pl.]回忆录，自传；记事录

参考例句：

• He has just published a memoir in honour of his captain.他刚刚出了一本传记来纪念他的队长。
• In her memoir,the actress wrote about the bittersweet memories of her first love.在那个女演员的自传中，她写到了自己苦乐掺半的初恋。

3 reclaim   

v.要求归还，收回；开垦

参考例句：

• I have tried to reclaim my money without success.我没能把钱取回来。
• You must present this ticket when you reclaim your luggage.当你要取回行李时，必须出示这张票子。

4 feminists   

n.男女平等主义者，女权扩张论者( feminist的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Only 16 percent of young women in a 1990 survey considered themselves feminists. 在1990年的一项调查中，只有16%的年轻女性认为自己是女权主义者。 来自辞典例句
• The organization had many enemies, most notably among feminists. 这个组织有许多敌人，特别是在男女平等主义者中。 来自辞典例句

5 discredit   

vt.使不可置信；n.丧失信义；不信，怀疑

参考例句：

• Their behaviour has bought discredit on English football.他们的行为败坏了英国足球运动的声誉。
• They no longer try to discredit the technology itself.他们不再试图怀疑这种技术本身。

6 seething   

沸腾的，火热的

参考例句：

• The stadium was a seething cauldron of emotion. 体育场内群情沸腾。
• The meeting hall was seething at once. 会场上顿时沸腾起来了。

7 compliant   

adj.服从的，顺从的

参考例句：

• I don't respect people who are too compliant.我看不起那种唯命是从，唯唯诺诺的人。
• For years I had tried to be a compliant and dutiful wife.几年来，我努力做一名顺从和尽职尽职的妻子。

8 frustration   

n.挫折，失败，失效，落空

参考例句：

• He had to fight back tears of frustration.他不得不强忍住失意的泪水。
• He beat his hands on the steering wheel in frustration.他沮丧地用手打了几下方向盘。

9 stigma   

n.耻辱，污名；(花的)柱头

参考例句：

• Being an unmarried mother used to carry a social stigma.做未婚母亲在社会上曾是不光彩的事。
• The stigma of losing weighed heavily on the team.失败的耻辱让整个队伍压力沉重。

10 stigmatized   

v.使受耻辱，指责，污辱( stigmatize的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• He was stigmatized as an ex-convict. 他遭人污辱，说他给判过刑。 来自辞典例句
• Such a view has been stigmatized as mechanical jurisprudence. 蔑称这种观点为机械法学。 来自辞典例句

11 cumulatively   

adv.累积地，渐增地

参考例句：

• Mind has become self-reproducing through man's capacity to transmit experience and its products cumulatively. 通过传递生活经验和积累创造的产品，人类的智慧在不断地进行着自我丰富。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• At first, the drug does no harm, but cumulatively its effects are bad. 这药开始对人没有害处，但连续服用后果就坏了。 来自《简明英汉词典》

12 injustice   

n.非正义，不公正，不公平，侵犯（别人的）权利

参考例句：

• They complained of injustice in the way they had been treated.他们抱怨受到不公平的对待。
• All his life he has been struggling against injustice.他一生都在与不公正现象作斗争。

13 harassed   

adj. 疲倦的，厌烦的 动词harass的过去式和过去分词

参考例句：

• He has complained of being harassed by the police. 他投诉受到警方侵扰。
• harassed mothers with their children 带着孩子的疲惫不堪的母亲们

14 tsunami   

n.海啸

参考例句：

• Powerful quake sparks tsunami warning in Japan.大地震触发了日本的海啸预警。
• Coastlines all around the Indian Ocean inundated by a huge tsunami.大海啸把印度洋沿岸地区都淹没了。

15 confirmation   

n.证实，确认，批准

参考例句：

• We are waiting for confirmation of the news.我们正在等待证实那个消息。
• We need confirmation in writing before we can send your order out.给你们发送订购的货物之前，我们需要书面确认。

16 validating   

v.证实( validate的现在分词 )；确证；使生效；使有法律效力

参考例句：

• His politics at home were validating his efforts in the hemisphere. 他的国内政策也有效地支持了他对本半球所做的努力。 来自辞典例句
• A number of different experimental approaches have aided in validating the concept. 许多不同的实验方法，有助于确证这种概念。 来自辞典例句

17 toxic   

adj.有毒的，因中毒引起的

参考例句：

• The factory had accidentally released a quantity of toxic waste into the sea.这家工厂意外泄漏大量有毒废物到海中。
• There is a risk that toxic chemicals might be blasted into the atmosphere.爆炸后有毒化学物质可能会进入大气层。

18 ripple   

n.涟波，涟漪，波纹，粗钢梳；vt.使...起涟漪，使起波纹； vi.呈波浪状，起伏前进

参考例句：

• The pebble made a ripple on the surface of the lake.石子在湖面上激起一个涟漪。
• The small ripple split upon the beach.小小的涟漪卷来，碎在沙滩上。

19 stringent   

adj.严厉的；令人信服的；银根紧的

参考例句：

• Financiers are calling for a relaxation of these stringent measures.金融家呼吁对这些严厉的措施予以放宽。
• Some of the conditions in the contract are too stringent.合同中有几项条件太苛刻。

20 atoned   

v.补偿，赎（罪）( atone的过去式和过去分词 )；补偿，弥补，赎回

参考例句：

• He atoned for his sin with life. 他以生命赎罪。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• She had atoned for everything by the sacrifice she had made of her life. 她用牺牲生命来抵偿了一切。 来自辞典例句

21 pending   

prep.直到，等待…期间；adj.待定的；迫近的

参考例句：

• The lawsuit is still pending in the state court.这案子仍在州法庭等待定夺。
• He knew my examination was pending.他知道我就要考试了。

22 disingenuous   

adj.不诚恳的，虚伪的

参考例句：

• It is disingenuous of him to flatter me.他对我阿谀奉承，是居心叵测。
• His brother Shura with staring disingenuous eyes was plotting to master the world.他那长着一对狡诈眼睛的哥哥瑞拉，处心积虑图谋征服整个世界。

23 dire   

adj.可怕的，悲惨的，阴惨的，极端的

参考例句：

• There were dire warnings about the dangers of watching too much TV.曾经有人就看电视太多的危害性提出严重警告。
• We were indeed in dire straits.But we pulled through.那时我们的困难真是大极了，但是我们渡过了困难。

24 mainstream   

n.（思想或行为的）主流；adj.主流的

参考例句：

• Their views lie outside the mainstream of current medical opinion.他们的观点不属于当今医学界观点的主流。
• Polls are still largely reflects the mainstream sentiment.民调还在很大程度上反映了社会主流情绪。

25 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。