PBS高端访谈:美国议员认为奥巴马对伊斯兰国的策略的关键点是什么?

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: As we reported earlier, President Obama today asked Congress for a war powers resolution, a measure to generally approve the use military force against the Islamic State group.

　　Here's Jeffrey Brown.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: The question now, how will Congress respond to the proposal, the first such war powers request from this president?

　　We are joined by two senators, Virginia Democrat¹ Tim Kaine, who's pushed for a resolution granting war powers to go before Congress, and Nebraska Republican Deb Fischer, who's just returned from a briefing and discussion on this issue for Senate Republicans.

　　And, Senator Fischer, let me start with you. What are you hearing from your colleagues? Some have already said they think this is too narrowly drawn², not giving this president and the next one enough flexibility³. What do you think?

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER, (R) Nebraska: What I'm looking forward to is a discussion by Congress on the resolution.

　　We're going to have committee hearings. We're going to be calling witnesses, really get some facts from the administration. What I would like to say is, we're going to do our jobs, and it's going to be open, it's going to be transparent⁴, so that the public understands what the president is asking for, how Congress is responding to his request, and have that open process.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: Well, Senator Kaine, we heard you earlier in the program saying that the resolution leaves perhaps too much room for the president. Explain the concerns you have.

　　SEN. TIM KAINE, (D) Virginia: Well, first, I'm very glad that the president sent this to Congress, because we shouldn't be at war without a congressional debate and vote.

　　And there's much in the authorization⁵ that I like. We passed one in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in December, and it's similar in many instances.

　　The provision about ground troops makes me nervous, because it's kind of vague and broad. It basically says ground troops can't be used, except — can't be used for enduring offensive combat operations, but it doesn't describe what that means.

　　And one lesson I think we should have learned from the authorizations that were passed in 2001 and 2002 is, vague, undefined language can lead you into circumstances that you didn't contemplate⁶. So, as Deb mentioned, we're going to be having hearings. And those hearings will be to pepper witnesses with questions and put some shape and definition to the authorization based on how the hearings go.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: Deb Fischer, what do you think about that language, specifically about ground troops?

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER: Well, you know, I'm looking forward to having the administration explain what they mean by that.

　　I kind of disagree with my colleague here. I believe the commander in chief needs to have flexibility. I think a commander in chief should be able to listen to his advisers⁷, to the generals, to the Joint⁸ Chiefs of Staff, who are going to provide him with facts, with information on what's happening on the ground.

　　And then he needs to have that flexibility in order to make a wise decision on how best our country is going to be served. To put a lot of limits on a commander in chief, to put those into an AUMF, I don't know if that's the wise course that we should take.

　　I think we're going to learn more as we go through the committee process. There will be a number of committees that are going to be involved in that process. And I'm hopeful that the administration will put forth⁹ a strategy, an endgame that we haven't seen so far.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: You know, Tim Kaine, another key issue here and contentious¹⁰, the president proposes replacing the 2002 authorization that was for use of force in Iraq, but not the 2001 authorization after 9/11.

　　SEN. TIM KAINE: Right.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: Do you think he should have gone further and dropped the 2001 authorization?

　　SEN. TIM KAINE: Jeffrey, I do think that we need to revise the 2001 authorization, absolutely.

　　I don't think we necessarily have to do it within the framework of this ISIL authorization, because I think you can take them up separately, but we should be urgent about it.

　　I'll tell you, one issue in the hearings that I'm going to be really focused on is the extent of our coalition¹¹ partners. The U.S. can't police a region that won't police itself. And that's one of the reasons I'm worried about the ground troop provision. If it has to rely on U.S. ground troops, it almost certainly means that the region isn't stepping up to fight its own homegrown terrorist threat.

　　And they need to do that. And if they do, we can vigorously assist them. But unless they're showing the willingness to battle the threat that is its own region's terrorist threat, it's going to be very difficult for us to accomplish the mission, at least inside of those countries.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: So, Senator Fischer, you said several times you're eager for these hearings, you're eager to learn more. What is your biggest concern at point as you look at the specific language? What worries you the most?

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER: Well, as I said earlier, what I'm looking for is an end state. What's the strategy here?

　　We haven't really seen what the goals are. We hear about degrading and defeating ISIS. Are we at the point right now where we're just looking at degrading them? We have to look at three things, I think. What's going to happen with Syria? How are we going to address Assad? How are we going to then look at Iraq? What are we looking for in Iraq?

　　It's a very destabilized country there. Is the goal a unified¹² Iraq? And of course we have to confront Iran and their ambitions in that region. I haven't heard anything from the president or the administration on where we are with regards to an overall view of what happens in that region of the world.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: What do you think, Senator Fischer, about the language of a specific time period, three years?

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER: I think it limits the next president of the United States. I don't believe we have seen that in AUMFs before. To put that three-year time period on is a limitation that doesn't give the president, either this president or the next president, the flexibility that they need.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: And, Senator Kaine, what do you think about that time period?

　　SEN. TIM KAINE: I think we need a sunset, because what we learned in the aftermath of the very brief authorizations that were passed by Congress in 2001 and 2002 is, if you impose no limitation in time, no limitation in geography, and if you put in vague and undefined terms, then you lead to a situation where Pentagon officials today say that they think we will be in the war declared in '01 AUMF for another 25 or 30 years.

　　That's not what Congress intended when they passed the law. And a sunset doesn't mean operations finish. It just means that a president has to come back to Congress and says, here's the status; now we need to move to a next chapter.

　　That kind of review is helpful.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: Well, so I know it's just day one here, and there's a lot to go, but very briefly¹³, where we stand now, Senator Kaine, will it pass? Will you vote for it?

　　SEN. TIM KAINE: Something is going to pass because there's an overwhelming bipartisan consensus¹⁴ that we need to be in this military action against ISIL. There are a lot of questions to ask and there will probably be some amendments¹⁵. But I think we will get there.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: And, Senator Fischer, what do you think?

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER: I want to go through the process. I want to have a full understanding. And I want that open and transparent process for the American people. This is a serious issue when we send our young people to war.

　　JEFFREY BROWN: Senator Deb Fischer, Senator Tim Kaine, thank you very both much.

　　SEN. TIM KAINE: Thanks so much.

　　SEN. DEB FISCHER: Thank you.

1 democrat   

n.民主主义者，民主人士；民主党党员

参考例句：

• The Democrat and the Public criticized each other.民主党人和共和党人互相攻击。
• About two years later,he was defeated by Democrat Jimmy Carter.大约两年后，他被民主党人杰米卡特击败。

2 drawn   

v.拖，拉，拔出；adj.憔悴的，紧张的

参考例句：

• All the characters in the story are drawn from life.故事中的所有人物都取材于生活。
• Her gaze was drawn irresistibly to the scene outside.她的目光禁不住被外面的风景所吸引。

3 flexibility   

n.柔韧性，弹性，（光的）折射性，灵活性

参考例句：

• Her great strength lies in her flexibility.她的优势在于她灵活变通。
• The flexibility of a man's muscles will lessen as he becomes old.人老了肌肉的柔韧性将降低。

4 transparent   

adj.明显的，无疑的；透明的

参考例句：

• The water is so transparent that we can see the fishes swimming.水清澈透明，可以看到鱼儿游来游去。
• The window glass is transparent.窗玻璃是透明的。

5 authorization   

n.授权，委任状

参考例句：

• Anglers are required to obtain prior authorization from the park keeper.垂钓者必须事先得到公园管理者的许可。
• You cannot take a day off without authorization.未经批准你不得休假。

6 contemplate   

vt.盘算，计议；周密考虑；注视，凝视

参考例句：

• The possibility of war is too horrifying to contemplate.战争的可能性太可怕了，真不堪细想。
• The consequences would be too ghastly to contemplate.后果不堪设想。

7 advisers   

顾问，劝告者( adviser的名词复数 )； （指导大学新生学科问题等的）指导教授

参考例句：

• a member of the President's favoured circle of advisers 总统宠爱的顾问班子中的一员
• She withdrew to confer with her advisers before announcing a decision. 她先去请教顾问然后再宣布决定。

8 joint   

adj.联合的，共同的；n.关节，接合处；v.连接，贴合

参考例句：

• I had a bad fall,which put my shoulder out of joint.我重重地摔了一跤，肩膀脫臼了。
• We wrote a letter in joint names.我们联名写了封信。

9 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

10 contentious   

adj.好辩的，善争吵的

参考例句：

• She was really not of the contentious fighting sort.她委实不是好吵好闹的人。
• Since then they have tended to steer clear of contentious issues.从那时起，他们总想方设法避开有争议的问题。

11 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

12 unified   

(unify 的过去式和过去分词)； 统一的； 统一标准的； 一元化的

参考例句：

• The teacher unified the answer of her pupil with hers. 老师核对了学生的答案。
• The First Emperor of Qin unified China in 221 B.C. 秦始皇于公元前221年统一中国。

13 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。

14 consensus   

n.(意见等的)一致，一致同意，共识

参考例句：

• Can we reach a consensus on this issue?我们能在这个问题上取得一致意见吗？
• What is the consensus of opinion at the afternoon meeting?下午会议上一致的意见是什么？

15 amendments   

（法律、文件的）改动( amendment的名词复数 )； 修正案； 修改； （美国宪法的）修正案

参考例句：

• The committee does not adequately consult others when drafting amendments. 委员会在起草修正案时没有充分征求他人的意见。
• Please propose amendments and addenda to the first draft of the document. 请对这个文件的初稿提出修改和补充意见。