PBS高端访谈:伊朗是如何看待也门冲突和核武器制裁的?

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: We take a closer look at Iran's role in Yemen and its nuclear negotiations¹ with the U.S.

　　Joining me is Thomas Erdbrink, The New York times' Tehran bureau chief, some of whose video reports we've aired on the NewsHour. He's in New York this week.

　　Thomas Erdbrink, thank you for joining us.

　　We have heard the Iranians deny they're supplying the Houthis with weapons, but we know the U.S. says that they are doing that, they have been doing that. We know the U.S. warships² in the area are watching Iran ships to make sure they don't continue that. Why doesn't Iran just acknowledge what it's doing?

　　THOMAS ERDBRINK, The New York Times: Well, I think the Iranians, throughout the past decade, have been very covert³ about the way they have been supporting groups in either Afghanistan or Iraq.

　　And they apply the same policy in Yemen. I also think we shouldn't exaggerate the level of this military assistance. On one hand, you have the Saudis, who are leading a coalition⁴ of 10 countries who are attacking Yemen with warplanes. And the Iranians are potentially sending weapons, but I don't think we should expect that these weapons are of the highest standard or quality, not because the Iranians don't have them, but just they're — as you said yourself, there's so much scrutiny⁵, it's hard for them to physically⁶ bring these weapons to Yemen.

　　And then I have been in Yemen once. It is a country awash with weapons. So I also don't know how many weapons the Iranians would actually need to send.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: How do the Iranians view the war in Yemen, and do they see this as a much bigger conflict between themselves than Saudi Arabia?

　　THOMAS ERDBRINK: Well, the Iranians have been in competition with the Saudis in the region for a very long time, basically from the time of the shah.

　　But, recently, you know, following the withdrawal⁷ of the United States from the region out of Iraq, partly of Afghanistan, Iran has been filling up this vacuum. And this, of course, has been scaring the Saudis, who first started with an engineering a drop in oil prices, something that also hits the U.S. economy, but at the same time hits the Iranian economy, which is already under sanctions.

　　Now, the Iranians feel that their support for the Houthis is legitimate⁸. I mean, you can doubt it, but they are saying Houthis are fighting for freedom, they are fighting with leaders of a country that has basically been collapsing⁹ over the past years. So their fight is a legitimate fight. And again they are pointing at what they call the double standards.

　　They're saying, look, the Saudis are attacking this country with airplanes, causing a lot of civilian¹⁰ victims, and our support is not that bad.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let me turn you now to the nuclear issue. We know the talks resumed today in Vienna between Iran and other world powers over what's going to happen with Iran's nuclear program.

　　We heard an Iranian official say — repeating what the ayatollah said the other day, and that is that they expect sanctions, economic sanctions, to be lifted as soon as this agreement is completed. The U.S. and others are saying, no, it's going to happen in stages. What do the Iranians really expect in that regard and what about the Iranian people, the Iranian public? What are they looking for?

　　THOMAS ERDBRINK: Well, just to start with that last group, the Iranian public, ordinary people, they are waiting for the sanctions to be lifted yesterday, of course, so they want the sanctions to be lifted.

　　If you look at Iran's leaders, Iran's supreme¹¹ leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the man who calls the shots in Iran, he has been arguing that on the first day of the signing of this agreement, all sanctions must be lifted.

　　Now, the foreign minister and the other officials, the people who are actually at the negotiating table, they are taking a different approach. They're saying the sanctions must be lifted on the day this agreement is implemented¹².

　　Now, there might be months, possibly a year between the signing of the agreement and the implementation¹³ of the agreement. So that gives, in my sense, enough wiggle space for all parties to come up with a reasonable compromise.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Very quick last question about The Washington Post reporter Jason Rezaian, who has been in jail for nine months in Iran. We have heard just this week the Iranians leveled — say they have imposed — or have leveled four charges, serious charges against him, including espionage¹⁴.

　　What is expected will happen with this case?

　　THOMAS ERDBRINK: Well, let me first state that Jason Rezaian, first and foremost, is a friend of mine and my successor at The Washington Post, where I worked four years before I got to — went to The New York Times.

　　And these charges that have been leveled against him must be proven in a court of law. And according to Iranian law, the charges had to come way sooner than this. The court case needs to come very soon. I spoke¹⁵ to Jason's brother the other day. He also is expecting a court case. And this has taken very long.

　　If the Iranians are so convinced that Jason Rezaian is a spy, something I have never seen from him, then, OK, let them prove it in a court of law.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we are — there is so much to keep an eye on.

　　And, Thomas Erdbrink, we thank you for talking to us while you're in New York. We appreciate it.

　　THOMAS ERDBRINK: Thanks for having me.

1 negotiations   

协商( negotiation的名词复数 )； 谈判； 完成（难事）； 通过

参考例句：

• negotiations for a durable peace 为持久和平而进行的谈判
• Negotiations have failed to establish any middle ground. 谈判未能达成任何妥协。

2 warships   

军舰，战舰( warship的名词复数 )； 舰只

参考例句：

• The enemy warships were disengaged from the battle after suffering heavy casualties. 在遭受惨重伤亡后，敌舰退出了海战。
• The government fitted out warships and sailors for them. 政府给他们配备了战舰和水手。

3 covert   

adj.隐藏的；暗地里的

参考例句：

• We should learn to fight with enemy in an overt and covert way.我们应学会同敌人做公开和隐蔽的斗争。
• The army carried out covert surveillance of the building for several months.军队对这座建筑物进行了数月的秘密监视。

4 coalition   

n.结合体，同盟，结合，联合

参考例句：

• The several parties formed a coalition.这几个政党组成了政治联盟。
• Coalition forces take great care to avoid civilian casualties.联盟军队竭尽全力避免造成平民伤亡。

5 scrutiny   

n.详细检查，仔细观察

参考例句：

• His work looks all right,but it will not bear scrutiny.他的工作似乎很好，但是经不起仔细检查。
• Few wives in their forties can weather such a scrutiny.很少年过四十的妻子经得起这么仔细的观察。

6 physically   

adj.物质上，体格上，身体上，按自然规律

参考例句：

• He was out of sorts physically,as well as disordered mentally.他浑身不舒服，心绪也很乱。
• Every time I think about it I feel physically sick.一想起那件事我就感到极恶心。

7 withdrawal   

n.取回，提款；撤退，撤军；收回，撤销

参考例句：

• The police were forced to make a tactical withdrawal.警方被迫进行战术撤退。
• They insisted upon a withdrawal of the statement and a public apology.他们坚持要收回那些话并公开道歉。

8 legitimate   

adj.合法的，合理的，合乎逻辑的；v.使合法

参考例句：

• Sickness is a legitimate reason for asking for leave.生病是请假的一个正当的理由。
• That's a perfectly legitimate fear.怀有这种恐惧完全在情理之中。

9 collapsing   

压扁[平]，毁坏，断裂

参考例句：

• Rescuers used props to stop the roof of the tunnel collapsing. 救援人员用支柱防止隧道顶塌陷。
• The rocks were folded by collapsing into the center of the trough. 岩石由于坍陷进入凹槽的中心而发生褶皱。

10 civilian   

adj.平民的，民用的，民众的

参考例句：

• There is no reliable information about civilian casualties.关于平民的伤亡还没有确凿的信息。
• He resigned his commission to take up a civilian job.他辞去军职而从事平民工作。

11 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

12 implemented   

v.实现( implement的过去式和过去分词 )；执行；贯彻；使生效

参考例句：

• This agreement, if not implemented, is a mere scrap of paper. 这个协定如不执行只不过是一纸空文。 来自《现代汉英综合大词典》
• The economy is in danger of collapse unless far-reaching reforms are implemented. 如果不实施影响深远的改革，经济就面临崩溃的危险。 来自辞典例句

13 implementation   

n.实施，贯彻

参考例句：

• Implementation of the program is now well underway.这一项目的实施现在行情看好。

14 espionage   

n.间谍行为，谍报活动

参考例句：

• The authorities have arrested several people suspected of espionage.官方已经逮捕了几个涉嫌从事间谍活动的人。
• Neither was there any hint of espionage in Hanley's early life.汉利的早期生活也毫无进行间谍活动的迹象。

15 spoke   

n.（车轮的）辐条；轮辐；破坏某人的计划；阻挠某人的行动 v.讲，谈（speak的过去式）；说；演说；从某种观点来说

参考例句：

• They sourced the spoke nuts from our company.他们的轮辐螺帽是从我们公司获得的。
• The spokes of a wheel are the bars that connect the outer ring to the centre.辐条是轮子上连接外圈与中心的条棒。