PBS高端访谈:共和党总统候选人就移民问题产生分歧

 　　GWEN IFILL: Economics and the politics of immigration are expected to remain front and center throughout the campaign year.

　　For more on the growing immigration policy divide, I'm joined by Marielena Hincapie, executive director of the National Immigration Law Center Immigrant Justice Fund, and Josh Blackman, an associate professor at the South Texas College of Law.

　　Marielena Hincapie, let me ask — start by asking you what leaped out at you in watching that debate, especially the part, the immigration debate last night?

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE, National Immigration Law Center Immigrant Justice Fund: Thank you, Gwen.

　　I, frankly¹, was initially² shocked at what I was starting to hear from Trump³, and then deeply, deeply troubled. It was surreal. I think many viewers may not realize that when Donald Trump was invoking⁴ President Eisenhower's immigration plan that resulted in the deportation⁵ of over a million individuals, he was actually referring to Operation Wetback.

　　Operation Wetback is one of the darkest and most shameful⁶ periods of our immigration history in this country, where immigrants from Mexico, including U.S. citizens of Mexican descent, were deported⁷. That is basically — historians think of it as ethnic⁸ cleansing⁹. That is shocking that in 2015 one of our presidential candidates is espousing¹⁰ that as his model for immigration.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, as you watched and listened to what they were saying, what leaped out at you?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN, South Texas College of Law: So, I think Marielena is correct. It's physically¹¹ impossible to remove 11 million immigrants.

　　But I think the correct framework is that some sort of reform has to be passed and that this cannot be accomplished¹² through executive action, which is what President Obama has done.

　　共和党总统候选人就移民问题产生分歧

　　GWEN IFILL: So, what is it that you heard last night that sounded like a reasonable approach?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: So, I think Senator Rubio advanced a proposal where immigrants who have been here for a while who have families and have not gotten in trouble, had they stayed 10 years, there will be a pathway for some sort of way for them to remain. And he also suggested that certain felons¹³ would be able to be moved primarily.

　　GWEN IFILL: Marielena Hincapie, this week, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals moved to delay, to block President Obama's plan to delay deportation for some people who are not here legally. Does this — how does this change the landscape of the immigration debate or does it?

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Well, right now, the decision was a devastating¹⁴ decision, particularly for the five million U.S. citizen children whose parents would have benefited from DACA.

　　And it was an expected decision, so it doesn't quite change things too much, in the sense that we remain in legal status quo, legal limbo¹⁵ for these families. On the other hand, because the Supreme¹⁶ Court is likely to take this case — and we're very glad that the Obama administration immediately said that they would be appealing — this is a case of national significance which is likely to be decided¹⁷ just months before the 2016 election.

　　So I think the issue will continue to be front and center and probably increase in terms of the debates, particularly in the general election.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, does this help or hurt your election year argument?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: So, I think the question is not whether the Supreme Court will hear it, but when the Supreme Court will hear it.

　　So, Marielena is correct.

　　GWEN IFILL: It's definitely going to happen?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Oh, it's definitely going to happen.

　　But it will either happen in May of 2016 or November of 2016. And the variable is when the court is able to grant certiorari, when it's able to grant review. And this is based first on when the U.S. government files their appeal and second when Texas files their response.

　　If the process too late, it's very possible that this process will be stretched and kicked until next year, so it would not even be argued until there's a new president in office.

　　GWEN IFILL: There were as many approaches to the immigration debate on stage last night as there were candidates.

　　I want to run through a few of them with you, Marielena Hincapie, starting with you.

　　Jeb Bush talked about fines and talking as a way of making sure that people stay — obey the law. How applicable can that be?

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Yes, paying a penalty has actually been one of the central factors of all of the immigration reform proposals, legislative¹⁸ proposals in the past.

　　I think Jeb Bush is right that that is often — and immigrants are ready and willing to pay a fine to be able to stay in the U.S. to obtain lawful¹⁹ status and work lawfully²⁰ and not have that fear of deportations and contribute even more to our country.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, we have heard much discussion about the path to citizenship²¹, but a lot less discussion than we used to. People like Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, who used to say — and even John Kasich, I think, last night suggested it — but it's being talked about a lot less. Why is that?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: I think one of the factors we have to consider is the role that President Barack Obama's presidential executive actions played in chilling congressional reform.

　　Speaker Paul Ryan had a piece in “USA Today” last week effectively arguing that because the president acts unilaterally, it's harder to trust the president. I think, in many respects, this unilateral action has made it more difficult to actually have some sort of comprehensive immigration reform.

　　GWEN IFILL: You're saying it's the unilateral action, not the actual substance of the policy itself?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Well, I think any discussion of whether you're actually rewarded people perhaps who enter the country illegally must be premised on what President Obama has done previously²².

　　If in fact the president is trying to abrogate²³ and bypass Congress, it makes it less likely that Congress will want to work with him to move forward.

　　GWEN IFILL: Marielena Hincapie, some people — Ben Carson is one of the people who have suggested that perhaps a guest-worker program might be an approach. Is that something that you can see happening that is middle ground?

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Absolutely not, not a guest-worker program by itself.

　　I think particularly for Ben Carson and the Republican candidates who yesterday talked about not being in support of the minimum wage, when we — when they are thinking of adding guest workers as the solution to immigration, that simply is going to depress wages and working conditions even more for U.S. workers.

　　We need to ensure that the 11 million people who are here who are already working have a path to citizenship and that we separately look at what are the forms, legal channels for people to come in the future.

　　For current guest-worker programs, they are extremely full of exploitation, mainly because workers are tied to an employer who can exploit them and unless those individual workers, those temporary workers have the same rights as U.S. workers, are able to leave that work and take their visa, have a portable visa, that guest-worker programs are just not the answer and not the solution. And it's definitely not the solution for the 11 million who are here and who are working and who have deep ties to our communities.

　　GWEN IFILL: Josh Blackman, what about the so-called dreamers? They got their hopes up last year with the idea that they would be able to stay here or they could at least apply to stay here. Is that going to fall apart or is that anything that any of these Republicans are supporting?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: So, I think the senators are opposed — sorry — the candidates are opposed to DACA. That's Deferred²⁴ Action for Childhood Arrivals.

　　GWEN IFILL: Right.

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Congress defeated the DREAM Act and the president went ahead and enacted²⁵ not the exact same thing, but significant portions of it, through executive action.

　　And I think in many respects, that, too, that has chilled the decision of whether Congress can act. And one point I make — I would like to make on the timing²⁶ of the Supreme Court appeal, the Obama administration had a chance to appeal to the Supreme Court in May of 2016. Their failure to do it basically ensured that this couldn't be decided until the earliest of the summer before the election.

　　So whether it is in fact a priority for the Obama administration to appeal is not clear. They may be content to let this sit as a political issue and have Senator Clinton perhaps and the Republican candidate duke this out. There may be political elements here in delaying the appeal itself.

　　GWEN IFILL: Briefly²⁷, where is public opinion on this?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: On?

　　GWEN IFILL: On this whole issue?

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Well, I think for the most part, people are looking to have a comprehensive reform through Congress and not through unilateral executive action.

　　GWEN IFILL: And, Marielena, one final thought on public opinion.

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Yes, as Joshua said, there is a lot of support. A majority of Americans support both comprehensive immigration reform through Congress, but recent polling actually shows that the majority of Americans also support the president's actions.

　　They don't believe that undocumented immigrants who are here, who are contributing to our economy, who have children, who have deep ties to our country should be deported either. So there is support for the president's action, as well as Congress. We — ultimately, we need Congress to act so that a future president can sign that law into — sign an immigration reform bill into law.

　　GWEN IFILL: Marielena Hincapie of the National Immigration Law Center and Josh Blackman of the South Texas College of law, thank you both very much.

　　JOSH BLACKMAN: Thank you very much.

　　MARIELENA HINCAPIE: Thank you. Thank you, Gwen.

 

1 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

2 initially   

adv.最初，开始

参考例句：

• The ban was initially opposed by the US.这一禁令首先遭到美国的反对。
• Feathers initially developed from insect scales.羽毛最初由昆虫的翅瓣演化而来。

3 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

4 invoking   

v.援引( invoke的现在分词 )；行使（权利等）；祈求救助；恳求

参考例句：

• You can customise the behavior of the Asynchronous Server and hence re-brand it by defining your own command set for invoking services. 通过定义自己调用服务的命令集，您可以定制自定义异步服务器的行为，通过为调用服务定义自己的命令集从而对它重新标记。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• You can customize the behavior of the Asynchronous Server and hence re-brand it by defining your own command set for invoking services. 通过定义自己调用服务的命令集，您可以定制自定义异步服务器的行为，通过为调用服务定义自己的命令集从而对它重新标记。 来自辞典例句

5 deportation   

n.驱逐，放逐

参考例句：

• The government issued a deportation order against the four men.政府发出了对那4名男子的驱逐令。
• Years ago convicted criminals in England could face deportation to Australia.很多年以前，英国已定罪的犯人可能被驱逐到澳大利亚。

6 shameful   

adj.可耻的，不道德的

参考例句：

• It is very shameful of him to show off.他向人炫耀自己，真不害臊。
• We must expose this shameful activity to the newspapers.我们一定要向报社揭露这一无耻行径。

7 deported   

v.将…驱逐出境( deport的过去式和过去分词 )；举止

参考例句：

• They stripped me of my citizenship and deported me. 他们剥夺我的公民资格，将我驱逐出境。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The convicts were deported to a deserted island. 罪犯们被流放到一个荒岛。 来自《简明英汉词典》

8 ethnic   

adj.人种的，种族的，异教徒的

参考例句：

• This music would sound more ethnic if you played it in steel drums.如果你用钢鼓演奏，这首乐曲将更具民族特色。
• The plan is likely only to aggravate ethnic frictions.这一方案很有可能只会加剧种族冲突。

9 cleansing   

n. 净化(垃圾) adj. 清洁用的 动词cleanse的现在分词

参考例句：

• medicated cleansing pads for sensitive skin 敏感皮肤药物清洗棉
• Soap is not the only cleansing agent. 肥皂并不是唯一的清洁剂。

10 espousing   

v.（决定）支持，拥护（目标、主张等）( espouse的现在分词 )

参考例句：

11 physically   

adj.物质上，体格上，身体上，按自然规律

参考例句：

• He was out of sorts physically,as well as disordered mentally.他浑身不舒服，心绪也很乱。
• Every time I think about it I feel physically sick.一想起那件事我就感到极恶心。

12 accomplished   

adj.有才艺的；有造诣的；达到了的

参考例句：

• Thanks to your help,we accomplished the task ahead of schedule.亏得你们帮忙,我们才提前完成了任务。
• Removal of excess heat is accomplished by means of a radiator.通过散热器完成多余热量的排出。

13 felons   

n.重罪犯( felon的名词复数 )；瘭疽；甲沟炎；指头脓炎

参考例句：

• Aren't those the seats they use for transporting convicted felons? 这些坐位不是他们用来押运重犯的吗？ 来自电影对白
• House Republicans talk of making felons out of the undocumented and those who help them. 众议院共和党议员正商议对未登记的非法移民以及包庇他们的人课以重罪。 来自互联网

14 devastating   

adj.毁灭性的，令人震惊的，强有力的

参考例句：

• It is the most devastating storm in 20 years.这是20年来破坏性最大的风暴。
• Affairs do have a devastating effect on marriages.婚外情确实会对婚姻造成毁灭性的影响。

15 limbo   

n.地狱的边缘；监狱

参考例句：

• His life seemed stuck in limbo and he could not go forward and he could not go back.他的生活好像陷入了不知所措的境地，进退两难。
• I didn't know whether my family was alive or dead.I felt as if I was in limbo.我不知道家人是生是死，感觉自己茫然无措。

16 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

17 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

18 legislative   

n.立法机构，立法权；adj.立法的，有立法权的

参考例句：

• Congress is the legislative branch of the U.S. government.国会是美国政府的立法部门。
• Today's hearing was just the first step in the legislative process.今天的听证会只是展开立法程序的第一步。

19 lawful   

adj.法律许可的，守法的，合法的

参考例句：

• It is not lawful to park in front of a hydrant.在消火栓前停车是不合法的。
• We don't recognised him to be the lawful heir.我们不承认他为合法继承人。

20 lawfully   

adv.守法地，合法地；合理地

参考例句：

• Lawfully established contracts shall be protected by law. 依法成立的合同应受法律保护。 来自口语例句
• As my lawfully wedded husband, in sickness and in health, till death parts us. 当成是我的合法丈夫，无论疾病灾难，直到死亡把我们分开。 来自电影对白

21 citizenship   

n.市民权，公民权，国民的义务(身份)

参考例句：

• He was born in Sweden,but he doesn't have Swedish citizenship.他在瑞典出生，但没有瑞典公民身分。
• Ten years later,she chose to take Australian citizenship.十年后，她选择了澳大利亚国籍。

22 previously   

adv.以前，先前（地）

参考例句：

• The bicycle tyre blew out at a previously damaged point.自行车胎在以前损坏过的地方又爆开了。
• Let me digress for a moment and explain what had happened previously.让我岔开一会儿，解释原先发生了什么。

23 abrogate   

v.废止，废除

参考例句：

• When can we abrogate the national boundaries all over the world?什么时候可以在全球取消国界？
• A government may abrogate any unfair treaties.政府可以取消任何不公平的条约。

24 deferred   

adj.延期的，缓召的v.拖延，延缓，推迟( defer的过去式和过去分词 )；服从某人的意愿，遵从

参考例句：

• The department deferred the decision for six months. 这个部门推迟了六个月才作决定。
• a tax-deferred savings plan 延税储蓄计划

25 enacted   

制定（法律），通过（法案）( enact的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• legislation enacted by parliament 由议会通过的法律
• Outside in the little lobby another scene was begin enacted. 外面的小休息室里又是另一番景象。 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹

26 timing   

n.时间安排，时间选择

参考例句：

• The timing of the meeting is not convenient.会议的时间安排不合适。
• The timing of our statement is very opportune.我们发表声明选择的时机很恰当。

27 briefly   

adv.简单地，简短地

参考例句：

• I want to touch briefly on another aspect of the problem.我想简单地谈一下这个问题的另一方面。
• He was kidnapped and briefly detained by a terrorist group.他被一个恐怖组织绑架并短暂拘禁。