PBS高端访谈:与安倍会谈之后 特朗普的外交政策初印象到底如何?

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: President-elect Trump¹ has spoken by phone to scores of world leaders. Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has met with him in person in New York this evening, following concern in his country over statements candidate Trump made during the campaign.

　　In fact, questions have been raised in many quarters about Trump's foreign policy, as he decides who his main appointments in that arena² will be.

　　We turn now to Michael Pillsbury, who has been advising the Trump transition team. He has served in past Republican administrations in the Defense³ Department and on the National Security Council staff. And David Rothkopf, he is the CEO and editor of "Foreign Policy" magazine and the author of "National Insecurity: American Leadership in An Age of Fear."

　　And we welcome both of you to the program.

　　Michael Pillsbury, let me start with you and ask you about this visit with the Japanese prime minister, the meeting late this afternoon with Donald Trump. How typical is it for a foreign head of government to meet with someone who's been elected president, but hasn't taken office yet?

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY, Former Reagan Administration Official: It's common.

　　This is basically a Japanese initiative. It's a very good idea. It lets the Japanese sort of get the feel of Mr. Trump, present some of their concerns from the campaign rhetoric⁴. And the fact that Mr. Abe has already said that it's an honor for him to be the first foreign leader in some sense sets up a competitive dynamic.

　　There's been some approaches already now already from Prime Minister Modi of India and other countries that they would like to have a chance to talk to the president-elect as well.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But you're saying it's common, this is something that is normally done?

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: I don't the statistics.

　　The key thing is, the president-elect can't act. He can't conduct foreign policy, but he can certainly educate himself and have a chance to meet people, so that, after he's president, it won't be the first time, it won't meeting of two strangers.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: David Rothkopf, what about that? How accustomed are we, should we be, to a president-elect having these kinds of meetings?

　　DAVID ROTHKOPF, Foreign Policy: Well, these kind of things happen. President Obama met with foreign leaders before he took office.

　　I think what president-elect Trump needs to think about a little bit is that his actions have foreign policy consequences whether or not he's meeting with foreign leaders, so that, for example, if he sends out a tweet trying to intimidate⁵ or berate⁶ The New York Times, foreign leaders who might be wanting to do that themselves start saying, oh, there is a change in a U.S. policy.

　　Or if he cozies up to Russia, or if he appoints an ethno-nationalist as his primary adviser⁷, people say, oh, perhaps ethno-nationalism is in season at the White House. Everything is being watched. Everything he does has a foreign policy consequence.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let me turn back to you, Michael Pillsbury, because there has been a lot made about not just Stephen Bannon being named as a top counselor⁸ to the president in the White House, but about what Donald Trump said during the campaign.

　　How much concern is there out there on the part of foreign leaders about him?

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: Well, it's hard to be sure of that, because he's not president yet. And so things that foreign leaders say can be for effect.

　　I can take you back to the Reagan administration. I was on President Reagan's transition team. And we had similar issues. People wanted to get in touch to know, what is the true policy going to be/

　　And transition teams and someone like me, especially an adviser on the outside, don't have any authority. President Reagan didn't really get to his main national security strategy until after one year in office. Some of these key documents, national security decision, Directive 32 on the Soviet⁹ Union, took one year to hash out.

　　So we're really in a very early phase, where, as David says, yes, the tweets are read and people are watching, but these are not official acts. There's no team of secretary of state and defense actually meeting to hammer things out yet. We're way early to see what the Trump administration role in history is going to be.

　　与安倍会谈之后 特朗普的外交政策初印象如何?

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So, David Rothkopf, it sounds like Michael Pillsbury is saying it's just too early to get concerned about any of this until he takes office and starts making decisions.

　　DAVID ROTHKOPF: Well, I don't know if it's too early.

　　Yesterday, you had the head of the National Security Agency saying that Russia had taken an active role in trying to tip the scales of this election towards Trump. And, indeed, that's what happened. Then Trump got on the phone with Russia, talked to Putin, waxed rhapsodic about a letter from Putin.

　　A day later, Putin launches a major offensive in Syria. Some of the people who Trump is considering are people who are fairly cozy¹⁰ with the Russians, including General Mike Flynn. And so all of a sudden people are starting to put pieces together.

　　Michael's right it takes time for a foreign policy legacy¹¹ to emerge, but, for — first impressions matter. And right now, Donald Trump is making some pretty disturbing first impressions.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, I want to come back on the specifics of that.

　　But, Michael, go ahead.

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: I don't agree at all on…

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Go ahead.

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: Well, a new president from whatever party deserves a bit of a cease-fire in my view. The election is over. Politics is going to continue.

　　There will be harsh criticism of Donald Trump, I'm sure, for the next four years. One of my favorite expressions in Washington is something George Shultz once said, I think on the "PBS NewsHour." He said — quote — "Nothing ever gets settled in this town."

　　So, conflicts continue. We can criticize Mike Flynn, but he's not been named yet as the national security adviser. I personally hope he is. I ready General Mike Flynn's book on the war on terror. It's quite good.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But what about…

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: He's not speaking right now. General Flynn, going on TV, for example, he doesn't speak as a government official.

　　This was an election campaign which is now over, and there needs to be a kind of break in this harsh daily criticism of Mr. Trump and his team.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: But, David Rothkopf, I hear you saying that there are signals being sent by the conversation that Donald Trump had with Vladimir Putin, for example.

　　DAVID ROTHKOPF: Of course.

　　And there are signals that are being sent with tweets intimidating¹² The Times, and there are signals being sent with who he's evaluating for key offices and who might be the people that he chooses to appoint to those offices.

　　And, you know, yes, it would be nice, ideally, if we could set aside the politics for a moment, but some of these things are not political. When you go and take somebody who's run a publication that's a white supremacist, misogynist¹³ publication and appoint him right next door to the president in the White House, that sends a message, particularly in Europe right now, where there's a rising tide of the right.

　　One of those people who he's appointed, Steve Bannon, has already sent a message to the Le Pen team who is going to contend for the presidency¹⁴ of France next year, extreme right-wingers. And so he's saying, look, we will help you, we're part of this rising tide of the right.

　　So, actions are being taken, choices are being made, and the consequences are serious.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And we should say that the Breitbart News organization argues against the characterization that it's white supremacist.

　　But, setting that aside, Michael Pillsbury, what about this argument that, already, by his statements, even saying I had a good conversation with Vladimir Putin, and the next day Russia launches yet another strike, punishing strike in Syria, that those are not things that we should be concerned about, at the very least?

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: I think the key thing is a White House fact sheet that President Obama issued and President Obama's own statements that the Obama administration has tried very hard to prepare memos¹⁵ for every government department for the last few months suggesting what to do, descriptions of what has happened so far.

　　But those will not be turned over until Mr. Trump's transition teams arrive in the buildings. Now, the problem we have right now is that the transition teams have not been sent.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And they did arrive today. Some of them did arrive today.

　　MICHAEL PILLSBURY: And this is a setback¹⁶ for the past week or so, but it's easy to remedy this. And now the dialogue begins.

　　So, things like David is concerned about, they will begin to sort of get hold of what's been going on in various foreign policy and defense areas quite soon. We're in this very, very premature¹⁷ first week now, as I appeal again to David, give people a break.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: We are just beginning to watch, and this is the first of many, many conversations we are going to be having on this.

　　Michael Pillsbury, David Rothkopf, we thank you both.

　　DAVID ROTHKOPF: Pleasure.

1 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

2 arena   

n.竞技场，运动场所；竞争场所，舞台

参考例句：

• She entered the political arena at the age of 25. 她25岁进入政界。
• He had not an adequate arena for the exercise of his talents.他没有充分发挥其才能的场所。

3 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

4 rhetoric   

n.修辞学，浮夸之言语

参考例句：

• Do you know something about rhetoric?你懂点修辞学吗？
• Behind all the rhetoric,his relations with the army are dangerously poised.在冠冕堂皇的言辞背后，他和军队的关系岌岌可危。

5 intimidate   

vt.恐吓，威胁

参考例句：

• You think you can intimidate people into doing what you want?你以为你可以威胁别人做任何事？
• The first strike capacity is intended mainly to intimidate adversary.第一次攻击的武力主要是用来吓阻敌方的。

6 berate   

v.训斥，猛烈责骂

参考例句：

• He feared she would berate him for his forgetfulness.他担心，由于健忘又要挨她的训斥了。
• She might have taken the opportunity to berate scientists for their closed minds.她也可能会去利用这个机会斥责那些抱成见的科学家。

7 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

8 counselor   

n.顾问，法律顾问

参考例句：

• The counselor gave us some disinterested advice.顾问给了我们一些无私的忠告。
• Chinese commercial counselor's office in foreign countries.中国驻国外商务参赞处。

9 Soviet   

adj.苏联的，苏维埃的；n.苏维埃

参考例句：

• Zhukov was a marshal of the former Soviet Union.朱可夫是前苏联的一位元帅。
• Germany began to attack the Soviet Union in 1941.德国在1941年开始进攻苏联。

10 cozy   

adj.亲如手足的，密切的，暖和舒服的

参考例句：

• I like blankets because they are cozy.我喜欢毛毯，因为他们是舒适的。
• We spent a cozy evening chatting by the fire.我们在炉火旁聊天度过了一个舒适的晚上。

11 legacy   

n.遗产，遗赠；先人(或过去)留下的东西

参考例句：

• They are the most precious cultural legacy our forefathers left.它们是我们祖先留下来的最宝贵的文化遗产。
• He thinks the legacy is a gift from the Gods.他认为这笔遗产是天赐之物。

12 intimidating   

vt.恐吓，威胁( intimidate的现在分词)

参考例句：

• They were accused of intimidating people into voting for them. 他们被控胁迫选民投他们的票。
• This kind of questioning can be very intimidating to children. 这种问话的方式可能让孩子们非常害怕。

13 misogynist   

n.厌恶女人的人

参考例句：

• He quickly gained the reputation of being a misogynist.他很快地赢得了“厌恶女性者”的这一名声。
• Nice try,but you're a misanthrope,not a misogynist.不错了，你讨厌的是世界，不是女人。

14 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

15 memos   

n.备忘录( memo的名词复数 )；（美）内部通知

参考例句：

• Big shots get their dander up and memos start flying. 大人物们怒火中烧，备忘录四下乱飞。 来自辞典例句
• There was a pile of mail, memos and telephone messages on his desk. 他的办公桌上堆满着信件、备忘录和电话通知。 来自辞典例句

16 setback   

n.退步，挫折，挫败

参考例句：

• Since that time there has never been any setback in his career.从那时起他在事业上一直没有遇到周折。
• She views every minor setback as a disaster.她把每个较小的挫折都看成重大灾难。

17 premature   

adj.比预期时间早的；不成熟的，仓促的

参考例句：

• It is yet premature to predict the possible outcome of the dialogue.预言这次对话可能有什么结果为时尚早。
• The premature baby is doing well.那个早产的婴儿很健康。