PBS高端访谈:为什么德国监督机构未能阻止柏林袭击的嫌犯?

 　　HARI SREENIVASAN: Anis Amri, the man suspected of carrying out Monday's attack on a Berlin Christmas market, was well known to German authorities. He was under surveillance for six months this year and was slated¹ for deportation². But his home country of Tunisia refused to accept him.

　　Joining me now for more on how Amri allegedly was allowed to pull off this attack is Peter Neumann, founder³ and director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence. He joins us tonight from Munich.

　　What's the latest in the investigation⁴?

　　PETER NEUMANN, International Center for the Study of Radicalization: Well, the latest is that they are still trying to track down where exactly he is right now, and they are conducting raids on different places that are connected to the jihadist scene. It is now known that he was part of a wider network of jihadists in Germany, and they are raiding different places that they seem to be believing that they are connected to the scene.

　　HARI SREENIVASAN: Tell me, how is it possible the German authorities not just had this person on the radar⁵ but were scheduling him for deportation? How did it get this far? How did they miss the signs?

　　PETER NEUMANN: So, there are a couple of things.

　　The first thing is capacity. There are around 550 jihadists in Germany who are believed to be potential terrorists. In order to surveil a single person 24 hours a day, you need about 20 officials. It's not possible.

　　And so, you know, authorities need to make judgment⁶ calls all the time — who do they consider to be acutely dangerous and who do they consider to be less dangerous. And this one may have fallen through the net.

　　The second point is federalism. Police and intelligence services are essentially⁷ on a state-by-state basis. And this guy traveled from a lot of different states to different states, and some of the information may have slipped through the cracks there.

　　为什么德国监督机构未能阻止柏林袭击的嫌犯?

　　HARI SREENIVASAN: What about the possibility he was radicalized in an Italian prison? That's something one of his brothers had said.

　　PETER NEUMANN: Yes, he was in an Italian prison about four years, and it may well be that he was radicalized there. He went further up north to Germany afterwards. He shouldn't have been able to do that because he was claiming asylum⁸ in Germany, and coming from Italy, that claim should have been refused immediately.

　　And so, basically, the whole system has failed. And I think it's all down to the fact that Germany is not really used to being the target of terrorist attacks. It's a little bit like America before 9/11. Germans are quite naive⁹ still about terrorism. We haven't been confronted with the kind of terrorist attacks other countries have been confronted with, and the whole system has not been geared up to confront this kind of threat.

　　HARI SREENIVASAN: Now, post-9/11, the American system geared up, to use your phrase. I mean, how does Germany's sensitive history with the surveillance state play into all of this?

　　PETER NEUMANN: That's a very good point because ultimately, after the end of the Second World War, Germans before reeducated to be against surveillance and to be pacifists. And guess what? America and the ally succeeded. Germans by and large are against surveillance and they are pacifists.

　　And that means that when being confronted with this kind of threat, a lot of reactions by politicians but also by society are very much against kind of confronting this threat head on. I very much hope that after this incident, the pendulum¹⁰ doesn't swing entirely¹¹ the other way, but that we are able to have a reasonable debate about what kind of measures are really necessary to confront this rather than staying one side or the other.

　　HARI SREENIVASAN: Do you see changes happening now in the interest of public safety that's swinging the pendulum?

　　PETER NEUMANN: I think there is a lot of debate right now. A lot of people are very unhappy with how the authorities have dealt with this case. There is a sense of real outrage¹², and there is a sense that the system isn't working and that we really need to think about how to make this work.

　　And I believe it's necessary to basically have something like the 9/11 Commission that you had in America after 9/11 that basically goes through I've aspect of government policy and says, this works, this doesn't work, and how do we construct a comprehensive counterterrorism strategy?

　　We don't have that in Germany right now. We don't have a counterterrorism strategy. We have a lot of authorities working on different things. We need a comprehensive thing, and I hope that's what's going to come out of this.

　　HARI SREENIVASAN: All right. Peter Neumann — thanks so much for joining us.

　　PETER NEUMANN: Thank you.

1 slated   

用石板瓦盖( slate的过去式和过去分词 )

参考例句：

• Yuki is working up an in-home phonics program slated for Thursdays, and I'm drilling her on English conversation at dinnertime. Yuki每周四还有一次家庭语音课。我在晚餐时训练她的英语口语。
• Bromfield was slated to become U.S. Secretary of Agriculture. 布罗姆菲尔德被提名为美国农业部长。

2 deportation   

n.驱逐，放逐

参考例句：

• The government issued a deportation order against the four men.政府发出了对那4名男子的驱逐令。
• Years ago convicted criminals in England could face deportation to Australia.很多年以前，英国已定罪的犯人可能被驱逐到澳大利亚。

3 Founder   

n.创始者，缔造者

参考例句：

• He was extolled as the founder of their Florentine school.他被称颂为佛罗伦萨画派的鼻祖。
• According to the old tradition,Romulus was the founder of Rome.按照古老的传说，罗穆卢斯是古罗马的建国者。

4 investigation   

n.调查，调查研究

参考例句：

• In an investigation,a new fact became known, which told against him.在调查中新发现了一件对他不利的事实。
• He drew the conclusion by building on his own investigation.他根据自己的调查研究作出结论。

5 radar   

n.雷达，无线电探测器

参考例句：

• They are following the flight of an aircraft by radar.他们正在用雷达追踪一架飞机的飞行。
• Enemy ships were detected on the radar.敌舰的影像已显现在雷达上。

6 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

7 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

8 asylum   

n.避难所，庇护所，避难

参考例句：

• The people ask for political asylum.人们请求政治避难。
• Having sought asylum in the West for many years,they were eventually granted it.他们最终获得了在西方寻求多年的避难权。

9 naive   

adj.幼稚的，轻信的；天真的

参考例句：

• It's naive of you to believe he'll do what he says.相信他会言行一致，你未免太单纯了。
• Don't be naive.The matter is not so simple.你别傻乎乎的。事情没有那么简单。

10 pendulum   

n.摆，钟摆

参考例句：

• The pendulum swung slowly to and fro.钟摆在慢慢地来回摆动。
• He accidentally found that the desk clock did not swing its pendulum.他无意中发现座钟不摇摆了。

11 entirely   

ad.全部地，完整地；完全地，彻底地

参考例句：

• The fire was entirely caused by their neglect of duty. 那场火灾完全是由于他们失职而引起的。
• His life was entirely given up to the educational work. 他的一生统统献给了教育工作。

12 outrage   

n.暴行，侮辱，愤怒；vt.凌辱，激怒

参考例句：

• When he heard the news he reacted with a sense of outrage.他得悉此事时义愤填膺。
• We should never forget the outrage committed by the Japanese invaders.我们永远都不应该忘记日本侵略者犯下的暴行。