PBS高端访谈:特朗普被曝与俄罗斯分享情报

 　　Now for some insights on this apparent disclosure, and the wider effects on intelligence-gathering¹ and sharing,

　　I'm joined by two men with deep knowledge of the U.S. intelligence community and the partnerships² it relies upon.

　　James Woolsey served as director of the CIA from early 1993 until January 1995. He was an adviser³ to President Trump⁴'s campaign last year.

　　And Andrew Exum, he was former deputy assistant secretary of defense⁵ for Middle East policy in the Obama administration. He's also a former Army Ranger⁶.

　　Mr. Woolsey, let me start with you. You heard Senator Risch say this was a good thing the president did, not a bad thing. Do you agree?

　　Well, it depends on whether the information gets out and damages our — either our relations with another country or our ability to keep sources and methods held very closely.

　　It may be that it will not cause a major difficulty.

　　But I think giving anything away to the Russians is something that has to pass about half-a-dozen levels of scrutiny⁷. And that's the real problem here.

　　Unlike President Reagan, who was faced with declassification⁸ decisions on the aircraft that was shot down, the Russian aircraft, and so forth⁹, here, we have just turned it loose, and to the Russians.

　　And that ought to have been preceded by a day or two anyway of high-level discussions among top-level officials to make sure we knew exactly what we were turning loose and exactly why.

　　Andrew, what's your take on this? Well, no, that's exactly right.

　　With all due respect to the senator from Idaho, any time — and, look, I just came out of government service at the Pentagon.

　　I know how frustrating¹⁰ leaks can be, but any time someone says the real problem is the media or leaks, they're usually trying to defend the indefensible.

　　And the problem here is that I don't think the American people realize how much of our intelligence is actually derived¹¹ from our partners.

　　If our partners cannot feel or do not trust that our president will not divulge¹² that information to,

　　I mean, goodness gracious, the Russians in this case, then that could create real problems for us going forward.

　　So, I completely agree with everything that Director Woolsey said. I think that this is a broader problem, regardless of how bad the actual leak was.

　　And when you were in the Obama administration, there was a lot of debate over how much intelligence over Syria to give to the Russians. Yes, there sure was.

　　What were the issues? I mean, we heard Mr. Woolsey say you have got to go through a lot of checkpoints. What were the considerations you went through on that?

　　Well, that's exactly right. You talk to anybody in the intelligence community, and you say, we want to release some information to the Russians,

　　first off, making something secret releasable to Russia is almost a contradiction in terms,

　　because so many of the sources and methods that we have developed over decades are really to allow us to spy on the Russians.

　　It's from the Cold War. So, there's a lot of worry that, even in divulge anything type of information to the Russians,

　　even if you don't get into sources and methods, they're going to backwards-engineer how you got that information, and thus learn something about your own capabilities¹³.

　　So that was a huge concern any time you start to discuss sharing information with the Russians.

　　And, Mr. Woolsey, there are reports now that this information came from Israel.

　　Is that a particular concern of giving this information to Russia, who is allied¹⁴ with Iran, who Israel sees as a mortal threat to their existence?

　　Yes, but there's a major footnote, I think. The yes is because of the way you formed the question.

　　Yes, it is a serious matter if it undercuts Israel's security at all and if it disturbs our relations with them.

　　But the Israelis, looking at the shift from President Obama to President Trump, would probably give up a couple of half-ton trucks full of classified information in order to preserve that switch.

　　And they are very happy with — and understandably so, with the new American administration. And although they would have criticisms,

　　and if there was something really sensitive in this, they would have been very upset about it

　　and would have come in and talked to the American director of central intelligence and explained why they were really worried and it ought not to happen again.

　　But in terms of quietly seething¹⁵ and being really upset and so forth, no, they're — I think they're very pleased at having a Trump administration.

　　Mr. Woolsey, General McMaster said that he — that the president didn't know where this information came from.

　　You're experienced at briefing presidents, and also, quite frankly¹⁶, briefing this president. You worked with him in the campaign.

　　How much information do you give a president about a piece of intelligence?

　　Well, I think in a circumstance in which he has to make a decision to disclose it to some government or individual that would be a serious potential problem, such as to Russia,

　　I think you owe him a very thorough understanding, and you ought not to just send the paper in as part of a document.

　　You ought to have enough leverage¹⁷ over his schedule to have the time to say, Mr. President, I hope you haven't decided¹⁸ to turn any of this loose, but should you be thinking about that,

　　the way you were back a few weeks ago, here are the problems with turning anything loose on this subject and on this subject and on this subject.

　　He deserves a really thorough scrubbing.

　　Andrew Exum, so, talk about, what is the potential threat to intelligence gathering in the future?

　　Yes. Well, first off, I think that Director Woolsey is probably right in terms of talking about the way in which the Israeli prime minister views the switch from Obama to Trump.

　　I don't necessarily think he's speaking for the Israeli defense and intelligence establishment.

　　I think, there, there is a lot of unease, precisely¹⁹ because, between 2009 and 2017, we dramatically increased the amount of military and intelligence cooperation with the Israelis.

　　And I suspect that you are going to see a lot of unease within the Israeli intelligence and defense establishment.

　　You're already starting to see quotes from Israelis nervous about what has potentially transpired²⁰.

　　And, there, I think the worry going forward is that, not just with the Israelis, but with all of our partners,

　　there's just going to be a reluctance²¹ to hand over information to the Americans, especially if it's sensitive, because, frankly, under our system, any secret is the president's.

　　The president — you know, things are classified at his discretion²² and at his pleasure.

　　So, legally, the president can do exactly what he potentially did a few days ago in terms of releasing information to the Russians.

　　I think that that's going to be problematic, to say the least, for many of our partners, not only in the region, but elsewhere around the globe.

　　I agree with that. I know we could talk much more about this, but I'm afraid we're out of time. We have got to leave it there.

　　Andrew Exum, James Woolsey, thank you both for joining us. Good to be with you. undefined

1 gathering   

n.集会，聚会，聚集

参考例句：

• He called on Mr. White to speak at the gathering.他请怀特先生在集会上讲话。
• He is on the wing gathering material for his novels.他正忙于为他的小说收集资料。

2 partnerships   

n.伙伴关系( partnership的名词复数 )；合伙人身份；合作关系

参考例句：

• Partnerships suffer another major disadvantage: decision-making is shared. 合伙企业的另一主要缺点是决定要由大家来作。 来自英汉非文学 - 政府文件
• It involved selling off limited partnerships. 它涉及到售出有限的合伙权。 来自辞典例句

3 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

4 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

5 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

6 ranger   

n.国家公园管理员，护林员；骑兵巡逻队员

参考例句：

• He was the head ranger of the national park.他曾是国家公园的首席看守员。
• He loved working as a ranger.他喜欢做护林人。

7 scrutiny   

n.详细检查，仔细观察

参考例句：

• His work looks all right,but it will not bear scrutiny.他的工作似乎很好，但是经不起仔细检查。
• Few wives in their forties can weather such a scrutiny.很少年过四十的妻子经得起这么仔细的观察。

8 declassification   

n.不再当机密文件处理，从机密表删除

参考例句：

• Technology of GCD is the combination of grid computing and declassification. 网格密码破解技术 (GCD)是网格计算理论和密码暴力破解需求的结合。 来自互联网
• Its essential is how to determine the reasonable allocating among all parts of the declassification system. 该问题的实质就是如何确定到解系统各部分的合理配置关系。 来自互联网

9 forth   

adv.向前；向外，往外

参考例句：

• The wind moved the trees gently back and forth.风吹得树轻轻地来回摇晃。
• He gave forth a series of works in rapid succession.他很快连续发表了一系列的作品。

10 frustrating   

adj.产生挫折的，使人沮丧的，令人泄气的v.使不成功( frustrate的现在分词 )；挫败；使受挫折；令人沮丧

参考例句：

• It's frustrating to have to wait so long. 要等这么长时间，真令人懊恼。
• It was a demeaning and ultimately frustrating experience. 那是一次有失颜面并且令人沮丧至极的经历。 来自《简明英汉词典》

11 derived   

vi.起源；由来；衍生；导出v.得到( derive的过去式和过去分词 )；（从…中）得到获得；源于；（从…中）提取

参考例句：

• Many English words are derived from Latin and Greek. 英语很多词源出于拉丁文和希腊文。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• He derived his enthusiasm for literature from his father. 他对文学的爱好是受他父亲的影响。 来自《简明英汉词典》

12 divulge   

v.泄漏(秘密等)；宣布，公布

参考例句：

• They refused to divulge where they had hidden the money.他们拒绝说出他们把钱藏在什么地方。
• He swore never to divulge the secret.他立誓决不泄露秘密。

13 capabilities   

n.能力( capability的名词复数 )；可能；容量；[复数]潜在能力

参考例句：

• He was somewhat pompous and had a high opinion of his own capabilities. 他有点自大，自视甚高。 来自辞典例句
• Some programmers use tabs to break complex product capabilities into smaller chunks. 一些程序员认为，标签可以将复杂的功能分为每个窗格一组简单的功能。 来自About Face 3交互设计精髓

14 allied   

adj.协约国的；同盟国的

参考例句：

• Britain was allied with the United States many times in history.历史上英国曾多次与美国结盟。
• Allied forces sustained heavy losses in the first few weeks of the campaign.同盟国在最初几周内遭受了巨大的损失。

15 seething   

沸腾的，火热的

参考例句：

• The stadium was a seething cauldron of emotion. 体育场内群情沸腾。
• The meeting hall was seething at once. 会场上顿时沸腾起来了。

16 frankly   

adv.坦白地，直率地；坦率地说

参考例句：

• To speak frankly, I don't like the idea at all.老实说，我一点也不赞成这个主意。
• Frankly speaking, I'm not opposed to reform.坦率地说，我不反对改革。

17 leverage   

n.力量，影响；杠杆作用，杠杆的力量

参考例句：

• We'll have to use leverage to move this huge rock.我们不得不借助杠杆之力来移动这块巨石。
• He failed in the project because he could gain no leverage. 因为他没有影响力，他的计划失败了。

18 decided   

adj.决定了的，坚决的；明显的，明确的

参考例句：

• This gave them a decided advantage over their opponents.这使他们比对手具有明显的优势。
• There is a decided difference between British and Chinese way of greeting.英国人和中国人打招呼的方式有很明显的区别。

19 precisely   

adv.恰好，正好，精确地，细致地

参考例句：

• It's precisely that sort of slick sales-talk that I mistrust.我不相信的正是那种油腔滑调的推销宣传。
• The man adjusted very precisely.那个人调得很准。

20 transpired   

（事实，秘密等）被人知道( transpire的过去式和过去分词 )； 泄露； 显露； 发生

参考例句：

• It transpired that the gang had had a contact inside the bank. 据报这伙歹徒在银行里有内应。
• It later transpired that he hadn't been telling the truth. 他当时没说真话，这在后来显露出来了。

21 reluctance   

n.厌恶，讨厌，勉强，不情愿

参考例句：

• The police released Andrew with reluctance.警方勉强把安德鲁放走了。
• He showed the greatest reluctance to make a reply.他表示很不愿意答复。

22 discretion   

n.谨慎；随意处理

参考例句：

• You must show discretion in choosing your friend.你择友时必须慎重。
• Please use your best discretion to handle the matter.请慎重处理此事。