PBS高端访谈:音乐播放器Spotify封杀音乐人

Hari Sreenivasan: This week, the music streaming service Spotify removed R&B singer R. Kelly from its playlists, which means fewer listeners will discover or hear his music. Why R. Kelly? In part, because of the online campaign #Mute Kelly. There are demands for investigations¹ into allegations he abused women of color over the past 20 years. Kelly performed last night in North Carolina. The singer is not currently charged with any crimes. Spotify cited its new hate content and hateful conduct policy as justification², and other streaming services have also removed r. Kelly from playlists, although his music is still available on these platforms. Joining me now is Joan Solsman, senior reporter for CNET, who is following this issue. This isn't necessarily a conversation about R. Kelly, but really about the... the step that Spotify as taken. What makes this such a big deal?

Joan Solsman: Well, for one, Spotify is the biggest streaming music service at a time when music streaming is becoming the most popular, most common way that people are listening to music. So, it's a stake in the ground, a very definitive³ step that it will make editorial judgments⁵ about not only the content of music but the conduct of the artist itself. And those judgments can have real repercussions⁶ on artists' livelihood⁷.

Hari Srinivasan: There's a part of their policy that I want to pull out. It says, What about hateful conduct by an artist? It says: We don't censor⁸ content because of an artist's or creator's behavior, but we want our editorial decisions, what we choose to program, to reflect our values. When an artist or creator does something that is especially harmful or hateful (for example, violence against children and sexual violence), it may affect the ways we work with or support that artist or creator. That's a portion of this conduct policy that they changed. That seems well and good, but what is the threshold for when it's determined⁹ that someone actually did something? If he hasn't been convicted of a crime, usually you can say, well, this is a criminal conviction. A jury of your peers have found that you did this wrong. This isn't that.

Joan Solsman: Exactly. That's why it's interesting. R. Kelly hasn't had a criminal conviction. He's not charged with anything right now. And there's another artist that they have also said at the same time that they're not going to be promoting. He hasn't been convicted of any crime, either. So, what it does, even though it makes a firm stake in the ground that Spotify is willing to exert this editorial judgment⁴, it muddies the waters about what that judgment is and how they're going to be applying it.

Hari Sreenivasan: And what kind of revenue are we talking about when... I mean, on the one hand, artists always complain that they're getting such little money from royalty¹⁰. But if you're not somebody who's like R. Kelly and who's still touring, how much does Spotify actually end up helping¹¹ your music?

Joan Solsman: Spotify is not critical, but it's a crucial element to an artist's livelihood, especially as consumption of music migrates over to streaming rather than getting an itunes download or buying a CD. Touring, of course, is a giant element to how... how artists make money. But that recurring¹² revenue comes from, more often, streaming. And in the case of Spotify, it's the biggest streaming subscription¹³ service. And its subscriptions¹⁴ pay a lot better than if you were to stream an R. Kelly song on YouTube and just watch the video, watch the video, but listen to the song. That pays a lot less than what you would get paid as an artist if a subscriber¹⁵ listens to your music.

Hari Sreenivasan: There's a long list of artists whose behavior we have either tolerated or set aside to enjoy their music, right? So, what is the... kind of how far back do they go? Is Spotify willing to put all of these different artists and all of that music off of their playlists if that's the step that they're willing to take?

Joan Solsman: These popular playlists, they can make and break artists. And so, if spotify is going to use conduct as a decision-making tool in whether or not they want to promote an artist, then it raises questions about will the artists that become huge be different? Will we have different art because of these decisions?

Hari Sreenivasan: All right. These are all important questions. Joan Solsman from Cnet, thanks so much for joining us.

Joan Solsman: Thank you.

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：本周，音乐流媒体服务Spotify将R&B歌手罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利从其播放列表中删除，这意味着发现或听到他音乐的听众将会更少。为什么是罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利？在某种程度上，是因为网络上的“静音凯利”运动。在过去的20年里，有人要求对其辱骂有色人种妇女的指控进行调查。昨晚凯利在北卡罗莱纳州演出。这位歌手近日没有遭受任何犯罪指控。Spotify将其新的政策“憎恨内容和可恶行为”作为理由，其他流媒体服务也将罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利从播放列表中删除，尽管他的音乐在这些平台上仍然可以播放。现在加入我们的是Cnet资深记者琼·索尔斯曼，他正在对此问题进行跟进。这未必是一场关于罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利的谈话，实际上这场谈话关乎Spotify采取的步骤。是什么使这件事如此重大？

琼·索尔斯曼：嗯，首先，Spotify是最大的流媒体音乐服务，而目前人们最流行、最常见的听音乐方式正是音乐流媒体。不可否认，编辑的判断不仅仅是音乐内容，更是音乐家的所作所为。而这些判断会对艺术家们的生计产生真正的反响。

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：他们的政策中，有一部分我想说一下。它说艺术家的可恶行为呢？比如儿童暴力或性暴力，那么我们的决定将反应我们与艺术家或创作者的关系。来反应我们的价值，如果艺术家或创作者做了一些让人厌恶或受到伤害的事情，我们不会因为艺术家或创作者的行为去审查他的作品，但我们希望编辑的决定，以及我们选择的程序。这是他们改变行为政策的一部分。这似乎是好的，但是，当确定某人确实做了某事时，阈值是什么？如果他没有被判有罪，通常你可以说，这是一个刑事定罪。你的同事会判断并发现你做错了。事实并非如此。

琼·索尔斯曼：的确。这就是为什么它很有趣。罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利没有刑事定罪。他现在没有受到任何指控。还有一个艺术家，他们同时也说，他们不会再去推他。他也没有被判有罪。所以毫无疑问，Spotify愿意做这个编辑判断，但对于那个判断是什么以及如何运用那个判断，它也会混淆。

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：我们在谈论的收入如何呢？我的意思是，一方面，艺术家们总抱怨他们从版税中获得的收入少之又少。但是，如果你不是像罗伯特·西尔维斯特·凯利这样的人，也不开巡回演唱会，那么Spotify到底帮了你多少忙？

琼·索尔斯曼：Spotify并不重要，但它是维持艺术家生计的一个关键因素，尤其现在，音乐消费转到流媒体，而不是获得iTunes下载或购买CD。开巡回演唱会，当然，是艺术家们赚钱的一个重大要素。但经常性收入则来自于流媒体。在Spotify的案例中，它是最大的流媒体订阅服务。相比在YouTube上看视频，用Spotify订阅听凯利歌曲的收益要高得多。而如果一个用户听你的音乐，你作为艺术家，这个报酬要少得多。

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：有很多艺术家，我们听他们的音乐或是因为我们可以容忍他们的行为或是我们把他们的行为放在一边，单纯享受他们的音乐，对吧？他们退了多远？Spotify是否愿意把所有这些不同的艺术家和所有的音乐从他们的播放列表中删除，如果这是他们愿意采取的步骤？

琼·索尔斯曼：这些流行的播放列表，它们可以缔造艺术家也可以毁掉艺术家。因此，如果Spotify在是否推艺术家的问题上，将行为作为一个决策工具，那么会产生一个问题，这对成为了大明星的艺术家有什么不同？我们是否会因为这些决定，感受到不同的艺术？

哈里·斯雷尼瓦桑：好的。这些都是重要的问题。Cnet的琼·索尔斯曼，非常感谢你加入我们。

琼·索尔斯曼：谢谢你。

1 investigations   

（正式的）调查( investigation的名词复数 )； 侦查； 科学研究； 学术研究

参考例句：

• His investigations were intensive and thorough but revealed nothing. 他进行了深入彻底的调查，但没有发现什么。
• He often sent them out to make investigations. 他常常派他们出去作调查。

2 justification   

n.正当的理由；辩解的理由

参考例句：

• There's no justification for dividing the company into smaller units. 没有理由把公司划分成小单位。
• In the young there is a justification for this feeling. 在年轻人中有这种感觉是有理由的。

3 definitive   

adj.确切的，权威性的；最后的，决定性的

参考例句：

• This book is the definitive guide to world cuisine.这本书是世界美食的权威指南。
• No one has come up with a definitive answer as to why this should be so.至于为什么该这样，还没有人给出明确的答复。

4 judgment   

n.审判；判断力，识别力，看法，意见

参考例句：

• The chairman flatters himself on his judgment of people.主席自认为他审视人比别人高明。
• He's a man of excellent judgment.他眼力过人。

5 judgments   

判断( judgment的名词复数 )； 鉴定； 评价； 审判

参考例句：

• A peculiar austerity marked his judgments of modern life. 他对现代生活的批评带着一种特殊的苛刻。
• He is swift with his judgments. 他判断迅速。

6 repercussions   

n.后果，反响( repercussion的名词复数 )；余波

参考例句：

• The collapse of the company will have repercussions for the whole industry. 这家公司的垮台将会给整个行业造成间接的负面影响。
• Human acts have repercussions far beyond the frontiers of the human world. 人类行为所产生的影响远远超出人类世界的范围。 来自《简明英汉词典》

7 livelihood   

n.生计，谋生之道

参考例句：

• Appropriate arrangements will be made for their work and livelihood.他们的工作和生活会得到妥善安排。
• My father gained a bare livelihood of family by his own hands.父亲靠自己的双手勉强维持家计。

8 censor   

n./vt.审查，审查员；删改

参考例句：

• The film has not been viewed by the censor.这部影片还未经审查人员审查。
• The play was banned by the censor.该剧本被查禁了。

9 determined   

adj.坚定的；有决心的

参考例句：

• I have determined on going to Tibet after graduation.我已决定毕业后去西藏。
• He determined to view the rooms behind the office.他决定查看一下办公室后面的房间。

10 royalty   

n.皇家，皇族

参考例句：

• She claims to be descended from royalty.她声称她是皇室后裔。
• I waited on tables，and even catered to royalty at the Royal Albert Hall.我做过服务生， 甚至在皇家阿伯特大厅侍奉过皇室的人。

11 helping   

n.食物的一份&adj.帮助人的，辅助的

参考例句：

• The poor children regularly pony up for a second helping of my hamburger. 那些可怜的孩子们总是要求我把我的汉堡包再给他们一份。
• By doing this, they may at times be helping to restore competition. 这样一来, 他在某些时候,有助于竞争的加强。

12 recurring   

adj.往复的，再次发生的

参考例句：

• This kind of problem is recurring often. 这类问题经常发生。
• For our own country, it has been a time for recurring trial. 就我们国家而言，它经过了一个反复考验的时期。

13 subscription   

n.预订，预订费，亲笔签名，调配法，下标（处方）

参考例句：

• We paid a subscription of 5 pounds yearly.我们按年度缴纳5英镑的订阅费。
• Subscription selling bloomed splendidly.订阅销售量激增。

14 subscriptions   

n.（报刊等的）订阅费( subscription的名词复数 )；捐款；（俱乐部的）会员费；捐助

参考例句：

• Subscriptions to these magazines can be paid in at the post office. 这些杂志的订阅费可以在邮局缴纳。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Payment of subscriptions should be made to the club secretary. 会费应交给俱乐部秘书。 来自《简明英汉词典》

15 subscriber   

n.用户，订户；（慈善机关等的）定期捐款者；预约者；签署者

参考例句：

• The subscriber to a government loan has got higher interest than savings. 公债认购者获得高于储蓄的利息。 来自辞典例句
• Who is the subscriber of that motto? 谁是那条座右铭的签字者？ 来自辞典例句