PBS高端访谈:美国认为俄罗斯意图介入叙利亚问题

 　　GWEN IFILL: Now we return to the root of what's forced millions from their homes: the conflict in Syria.

　　With multiple factions¹ and common enemies in play, the war has become even more complicated, as Russia now steps up its support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad by moving additional military men and weaponry into Syria and expanding its base there.

　　Meanwhile, Moscow is calling for greater coordination² with the U.S. to fight a common enemy: the Islamic State group.

　　Joining me now to help us sort through some of this latest tangle³ is chief foreign affairs correspondent Margaret Warner.

　　So, Margaret, where does this proposal or this talk about having joint⁵ U.S.-Russia talks stand tonight?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Well, Gwen, even though there's been no official announcement, in fact, you could say the military-to-military talks have ray begun.

　　Last Friday, Secretary of Defense⁶ Ash Carter had a conversation 50 minutes with his counterpart, and this had been 18 months in which the Obama administration had cut off all contacts after Russia seized Ukraine or certainly seized Crimea.

　　So the question they're trying to figure out, OK, publicly, they're saying, the U.S. is saying, well, these are deconfliction talks. Make sure that our planes don't interfere⁷ with each other and we don't have an accident.

　　That is part of it. But really what they want to know is, what is Assad's intention here? And is it to prop⁴ up the Assad government? I'm sorry — Russian's intentions are to prop up the Assad government, or in fact is it just to fight ISIS, which is what Kerry had been told by Lavrov?

　　GWEN IFILL: Now, is this just old Cold War suspension, or do we have reason to be worried that this is more than what Russia says it is?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Oh, well, that's exactly — and the administration will admit this — they do not want to be gamed, as several said to me, the way they were in Ukraine, where President Putin and Foreign Minister Lavrov, Sergei Lavrov, consistently, in the U.S. view, lied, not only to them on the phone, face to face, but lied to the world about whether they were in Ukraine and what they were doing in Ukraine.

　　And so this time, they didn't want to be sucked into that. They also want to make sure, you know, if his intention is to help Assad fight ISIS and they adopt Assad's view, which is everybody opposed to me is a terrorist, well, the U.S. doesn't want to get sucked into that kind of endeavor or that kind of partnership⁸.

　　GWEN IFILL: I can understand that, but I just don't see — how do face-to-face talks mean that they will tell the truth or that they will get the truth?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Excellent point, Gwen, because Kerry has already had three conversations with Lavrov.

　　Based on what happened in Ukraine, there is no guarantee they will be told the truth. And the interventions⁹ with Lavrov on the phone have, so far, not slowed the Russian advance of weapons and materiel and men into Syria at all.

　　GWEN IFILL: Is there any worry or concern that part of the deal if Lavrov were to talk to Kerry or Putin would talk to president…

　　MARGARET WARNER: Again, which might happen next week.

　　GWEN IFILL: Which might happen next week in New York.

　　Is there any concern that the tradeoff might be keeping Assad in power?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Oh, yes.

　　And, in fact, in London just this weekend, Secretary Kerry said, well, essentially¹⁰, that Assad could be part of the transition. Now, when you ask why the turnaround, administration officials tell me there is no turnaround. If you were at the Geneva Syria peace talks 18 months ago, as I was, or you read the clips, which I read again today, Kerry's tone was absolutely hard and fast. There is no role for President Assad even in this transition phase.

　　Yesterday or this weekend, Kerry said, well, we're not obdurate¹¹ about that as to time and place.

　　GWEN IFILL: And why the change? So there was a change, but why?

　　MARGARET WARNER: Oh, there's definitely a change, because — for two reasons.

　　One, there is an urgency to get something going on the political process. And that's what Kerry is hoping, is that this invitation to talk about military-to-military will open up an opportunity and that we could cooperate with the Russians on that, as we did on Iran.

　　So, one, it's the E.U. The European migrant crisis is driving it, and, two, a growing concern that in fact Assad and everybody other than ISIS is losing control completely of Northern Syria, and that the thing is just getting completely out of hand.

　　GWEN IFILL: For the record, what is it that Russia says it is actually — they say that they're actually doing?

　　MARGARET WARNER: They say they are there — they have always had a base in Syria. This is not new. And they…

　　GWEN IFILL: Advisers¹², not military.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Well…

　　GWEN IFILL: Well, who knows.

　　MARGARET WARNER: I don't know. I don't know the details of that.

　　But this is totally different. The base is being expanded. There were reports by Reuters, which no one would confirm to me, that Russia is already flying surveillance drones over Syria. So what they want to make sure doesn't happen is that essentially Assad gets this tremendous help from the Russians and turns around and uses it against his own citizens, barrel-bombing them, as Assad is doing now.

　　GWEN IFILL: It sounds almost — and tell me if this is too simplistic — like a pool game, that, on one hand, the migrant crisis is pushing them toward Russia, but they're afraid that Russia may have a bank shot which takes them back toward Assad. Does that make any sense?

　　MARGARET WARNER: I couldn't have said it better. I couldn't have said it better. That's exactly it.

　　And, as you say, the track record is such that there's no reason for President Obama to believe President Putin anyway.

　　GWEN IFILL: So, who holds the cue, just following through on that?

　　MARGARET WARNER: I don't know. Probably Putin, as he manages to do.

　　Obviously, he's trying to get out of the deep freeze he's been in with the rest of the world over Ukraine. And the U.S. doesn't really want to be an enabler to that. At the same time, they want to learn more about the military operations.

　　So, the administration, it strikes me, is a little bit caught. And then you also always have Secretary Kerry, who, having completed the Iran deal, some people say may be just looking for another great negotiation¹³ he can get going.

　　GWEN IFILL: Well, there's plenty out there left to be done, but one last thing.

　　So, next week is the United Nations General Assembly. This is where any meeting between the president and President Putin would likely occur.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Yes.

　　GWEN IFILL: Where does that stand, an actual face-to-face of leaders?

　　MARGARET WARNER: There is still — there is debate and discussion in the White House over this, I'm told.

　　It is very much in the air. Kerry and Lavrov will obviously talk, probably extensively and several times, in a bilateral¹⁴, just the two of them. So, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Presidents Obama and Putin were to meet.

　　GWEN IFILL: And there will be a pool cue in the corner waiting.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Yes.

　　GWEN IFILL: … fix it up.

　　GWEN IFILL: Margaret Warner, thank you very much.

　　MARGARET WARNER: Thanks, Gwen.

1 factions   

组织中的小派别，派系( faction的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• The gens also lives on in the "factions." 氏族此外还继续存在于“factions〔“帮”〕中。 来自英汉非文学 - 家庭、私有制和国家的起源
• rival factions within the administration 政府中的对立派别

2 coordination   

n.协调，协作

参考例句：

• Gymnastics is a sport that requires a considerable level of coordination.体操是一项需要高协调性的运动。
• The perfect coordination of the dancers and singers added a rhythmic charm to the performance.舞蹈演员和歌手们配合得很好，使演出更具魅力。

3 tangle   

n.纠缠；缠结；混乱；v.(使)缠绕；变乱

参考例句：

• I shouldn't tangle with Peter.He is bigger than me.我不应该与彼特吵架。他的块头比我大。
• If I were you, I wouldn't tangle with them.我要是你，我就不跟他们争吵。

4 prop   

vt.支撑；n.支柱，支撑物；支持者，靠山

参考例句：

• A worker put a prop against the wall of the tunnel to keep it from falling.一名工人用东西支撑住隧道壁好使它不会倒塌。
• The government does not intend to prop up declining industries.政府无意扶持不景气的企业。

5 joint   

adj.联合的，共同的；n.关节，接合处；v.连接，贴合

参考例句：

• I had a bad fall,which put my shoulder out of joint.我重重地摔了一跤，肩膀脫臼了。
• We wrote a letter in joint names.我们联名写了封信。

6 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

7 interfere   

v.(in)干涉，干预；(with)妨碍，打扰

参考例句：

• If we interfere, it may do more harm than good.如果我们干预的话，可能弊多利少。
• When others interfere in the affair,it always makes troubles. 别人一卷入这一事件，棘手的事情就来了。

8 partnership   

n.合作关系，伙伴关系

参考例句：

• The company has gone into partnership with Swiss Bank Corporation.这家公司已经和瑞士银行公司建立合作关系。
• Martin has taken him into general partnership in his company.马丁已让他成为公司的普通合伙人。

9 interventions   

n.介入，干涉，干预( intervention的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Economic analysis of government interventions deserves detailed discussion. 政府对经济的干预应该给予充分的论述。 来自辞典例句
• The judge's frequent interventions made a mockery of justice. 法官的屡屡干预是对正义的践踏。 来自互联网

10 essentially   

adv.本质上，实质上，基本上

参考例句：

• Really great men are essentially modest.真正的伟人大都很谦虚。
• She is an essentially selfish person.她本质上是个自私自利的人。

11 obdurate   

adj.固执的，顽固的

参考例句：

• He is obdurate in his convictions.他执着于自己所坚信的事。
• He remained obdurate,refusing to alter his decision.他依然固执己见，拒不改变决定。

12 advisers   

顾问，劝告者( adviser的名词复数 )； （指导大学新生学科问题等的）指导教授

参考例句：

• a member of the President's favoured circle of advisers 总统宠爱的顾问班子中的一员
• She withdrew to confer with her advisers before announcing a decision. 她先去请教顾问然后再宣布决定。

13 negotiation   

n.谈判，协商

参考例句：

• They closed the deal in sugar after a week of negotiation.经过一星期的谈判，他们的食糖生意成交了。
• The negotiation dragged on until July.谈判一直拖到7月份。

14 bilateral   

adj.双方的，两边的，两侧的

参考例句：

• They have been negotiating a bilateral trade deal.他们一直在商谈一项双边贸易协定。
• There was a wide gap between the views of the two statesmen on the bilateral cooperation.对双方合作的问题，两位政治家各自所持的看法差距甚大。