PBS高端访谈:亚当·希夫新书谈论美国民主 称特朗普统治时期为至暗时期

He is best known probably for being the chief prosecutor¹ in former President Donald Trump²'s first impeachment³ trial. That case ended with an acquittal.

他最出名的可能是在前总统唐纳德特朗普的第一次弹劾审判中担任首席检察官。该案件以无罪告终。

But, in his new book, "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could," House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff connects that episode to others in our recent history, including the January 6 Capitol riot.

但是，众议院情报委员会主席亚当·希夫在他的新书 华盛顿午夜:我们如何几乎失去民主，并且仍然可能失去 中，将这一事件与我国近现代历史上的其他事件联系起来，包括1月6日的国会骚乱。

Chairman Schiff joined me here just a short time ago.Congressman⁴ Adam Schiff, thank you very much for joining us.

席夫主席不久前和我一起来到这里。国会议员亚当席夫，非常感谢你加入我们。

If the title weren't jarring enough, you have also been saying that the risk of authoritarianism⁵ in this country has never been greater. Do you mean that?

如果标题不够刺耳，你还一直说这个国家的威权主义风险从未如此大。你是这个意思吗？

I do. There's this dangerous flirtation⁶ in the Republican Party right now with autocracy⁷. You see it reflected in some of their preeminent⁸ spokespeople, like Tucker Carlson extolling⁹ the model of Viktor Orban, the Hungarian wannabe dictator. You see conservative political conventions now being scheduled in Budapest.

我同意。共和党内部现在正在对专制进行这种危险的调情。你可以从他们一些杰出的代言人身上看到这一点，比如塔克·卡尔森对匈牙利独裁者维克托·欧尔班的模式的赞美。你可以看到布达佩斯正在举行保守的政治会议。

And you see Republicans around the country attacking the independent apparatus¹⁰ of our democracy, these elections officials, and trying to strip them of their powers and give them to partisan¹¹ appointed officials or boards.And that is a direct threat to our democracy and a pathway to authoritarianism.

你可以看到全国各地的共和党人攻击我们民主的独立机构，这些选举官员，试图剥夺他们的权力，把权力交给党派指定的官员或委员会。这是对我们民主的直接威胁，是走向独裁主义的途径。

I'm struck in the book by -- obviously, you focus a great deal on former President Trump, but how much you focus on Republican members of Congress. And you describe how many of them are good people who are persuaded to abandon their beliefs. This becomes a theme of the book. Give us an example of how you see their minds changing, their hearts changing.

显然，你非常关注前总统特朗普，但你对国会共和党成员的关注有多少。你描述了他们中有多少是被说服放弃信仰的好人。这成为本书的主题。给我们一个例子，说明你如何看待他们的思想变化，他们的内心变化。

It is really a theme, a running theme in the book.And it goes back to something Robert Caro, the historian, once observed, that power doesn't corrupt¹² as much as it reveals. And over the last five years, we have seen how power has revealed who certain people are. Bill Barr is a perfect example.

这确实是一个主题，是书中不断出现的主题。这要追溯到历史学家罗伯特·卡罗曾经说过的一句话，权力并不像它所揭示的那样腐败。在过去的五年里，我们看到权力是如何揭示某些人的本来面目。比尔·巴尔就是一个很好的例子。

Bill Barr, under the George Herbert Walker Bush administration, when he was first attorney general, was one kind of person. Surrounded, I think, by people of integrity, like the former president, we didn't get a sense of who he was.

乔治·赫伯特·沃克·布什政府时期的比尔·巴尔，当他还是第一任司法部长时，就是这样的人。我想，周围都是正直的人，比如前总统，我们觉察不到他的本来面目。

But later, tethered to a man without scruple¹³ like Donald Trump, we found that Bill Barr was also without scruple, that he would do almost anything to have a seat once again at the table of power. And there are so many other cautionary tales along those lines.

但后来，我们发现，比尔·巴尔被一个像唐纳德·特朗普这样毫无顾忌的人束缚住了，他也毫无顾忌，为了再次坐上权力的宝座，他几乎会做任何事情。沿着这些线索还有很多其他的警示故事。

But I also wanted to tell the story in this book about the heroes that emerged, the Marie Yovanovitches, the Bill Taylors, the Alexander Vindmans, those who showed great courage, because their example is what will lead us out of this darkness.

但我也想讲述这本书中出现的英雄故事，玛丽·约瓦诺维奇，比尔·泰勒，亚历山大·文德曼，那些表现出巨大勇气的人，因为他们这样的榜样将带领我们走出这片黑暗。

Do you think -- I mean, you call it darkness. I mean, do you see an end to the influence of Donald Trump?

你认为——我的意思是，你称之为黑暗。我的意思是，你认为唐纳德·特朗普的影响力会终结吗?

I do. And what really I think is such a terrible tragedy is, after we went through that horrible ordeal¹⁴ of the insurrection, there was a window when the Republican Party might have recaptured its identity as a party of ideas.

是的。我认为真正可怕的悲剧是, 在我们经历了起义的可怕磨难之后，有一个窗口可以让共和党重新获得作为思想政党的身份。

1 prosecutor   

n.起诉人；检察官，公诉人

参考例句：

• The defender argued down the prosecutor at the court.辩护人在法庭上驳倒了起诉人。
• The prosecutor would tear your testimony to pieces.检查官会把你的证言驳得体无完肤。

2 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

3 impeachment   

n.弹劾；控告；怀疑

参考例句：

• Impeachment is considered a drastic measure in the United States.在美国，弹劾被视为一种非常激烈的措施。
• The verdict resulting from his impeachment destroyed his political career.他遭弹劾后得到的判决毁了他的政治生涯。

4 Congressman   

n.（美）国会议员

参考例句：

• He related several anecdotes about his first years as a congressman.他讲述自己初任议员那几年的几则轶事。
• The congressman is meditating a reply to his critics.这位国会议员正在考虑给他的批评者一个答复。

5 authoritarianism   

权力主义，独裁主义

参考例句：

• Modern authoritarianism is a vestige of traditional personal rule. 现代独裁主义则是传统的个人统治的残余。
• In its latter days it was a byword for authoritarianism, incompetence, and corruption. 在后期，它是独裁、无能和腐化的代号。

6 flirtation   

n.调情，调戏，挑逗

参考例句：

• a brief and unsuccessful flirtation with the property market 对房地产市场一时兴起、并不成功的介入
• At recess Tom continued his flirtation with Amy with jubilant self-satisfaction. 课间休息的时候，汤姆继续和艾美逗乐，一副得意洋洋、心满意足的样子。 来自英汉文学 - 汤姆历险

7 autocracy   

n.独裁政治，独裁政府

参考例句：

• The revolution caused the overthrow of the autocracy.这场革命导致了独裁政体的结束。
• Many poor countries are abandoning autocracy.很多贫穷国家都在放弃独裁统治。

8 preeminent   

adj.卓越的，杰出的

参考例句：

• Washington was recognized as the preeminent spokesman of American Negroes by 1895. 到1895年,华盛顿被公认为美国黑人的卓越代言人。
• He is preeminent because his articles are well written. 他的文章写得很漂亮,卓尔不群。

9 extolling   

v.赞美( extoll的现在分词 )；赞颂，赞扬，赞美( extol的现在分词 )

参考例句：

• He never stops extolling the virtues of the free market. 他不停地颂扬自由市场的种种好处。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• They kept extolling my managerial skills. 他们不停地赞美我的管理技能。 来自辞典例句

10 apparatus   

n.装置，器械；器具，设备

参考例句：

• The school's audio apparatus includes films and records.学校的视听设备包括放映机和录音机。
• They had a very refined apparatus.他们有一套非常精良的设备。

11 partisan   

adj.党派性的；游击队的；n.游击队员；党徒

参考例句：

• In their anger they forget all the partisan quarrels.愤怒之中，他们忘掉一切党派之争。
• The numerous newly created partisan detachments began working slowly towards that region.许多新建的游击队都开始慢慢地向那里移动。

12 corrupt   

v.贿赂，收买；adj.腐败的，贪污的

参考例句：

• The newspaper alleged the mayor's corrupt practices.那家报纸断言市长有舞弊行为。
• This judge is corrupt.这个法官贪污。

13 scruple   

n./v.顾忌，迟疑

参考例句：

• It'seemed to her now that she could marry him without the remnant of a scruple.她觉得现在她可以跟他成婚而不需要有任何顾忌。
• He makes no scruple to tell a lie.他说起谎来无所顾忌。

14 ordeal   

n.苦难经历，（尤指对品格、耐力的）严峻考验

参考例句：

• She managed to keep her sanity throughout the ordeal.在那场磨难中她始终保持神志正常。
• Being lost in the wilderness for a week was an ordeal for me.在荒野里迷路一星期对我来说真是一场磨难。