PBS高端访谈:迈克尔·弗林辞职 美国国家安全委员会陷入动荡

 　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Now, for what we know about what is happening inside the White House at this tumultuous moment, and the real-world effect of this upheaval¹, we turn to two veteran national security reporters.

　　Greg Miller² writes for The Washington Post. And Michael Gordon of The New York Times, he wrote the story about Russian missile moves that we reported earlier.

　　Welcome, both of you, welcome you back to the program.

　　Let me start with you, Greg Miller.

　　We have gotten, I think, two different versions over the last 24 hours of what happened to General Flynn since yesterday, was that he was asked to resign. Today, the White House seems to be saying he was forced to resign. What's the truth?

　　GREG MILLER, National Security Correspondent, The Washington Post: I think there is really not much doubt that he was forced and that a number of things forced the White House to make this decision.

　　They might not have wanted to do it at that particular moment, but the cumulative³ total of the headlines day after day on Flynn and what was happening was, I think, too much.

　　And I think it really came down to two basic things, one, what he did, and just what he discussed with the Russian ambassador, but, more significantly, how he misled senior officials at the White House, including Vice⁴ President Pence, about the nature of those communications.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Greg Miller, staying with you, what's your understanding of why this was allowed to spiral on, this was allowed to run out as long as it did, three weeks?

　　That from the time General Flynn came into the White House, there were questions about these conversations with the Russian ambassador, and here we are over three weeks later. Why did it take so long?

　　GREG MILLER: I mean, we're still waiting for really clear answers to these questions, but the questions are really piling up at this point.

　　I mean, we are reporting and others are reporting this afternoon that Flynn was interviewed by the FBI within his initial days of his arrival as national security adviser⁵ in the Trump⁶ administration, which means that the FBI was already looking at this and putting him — sworn questions to him about his communications with Kislyak.

　　And then we know, as we reported last night at The Washington Post, that the acting⁷ attorney general warned the White House weeks ago that Flynn had misled Pence and others. And it took until yesterday for the White House to even appear to acknowledge this discrepancy⁸, let alone attempt to clear any of it up.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Michael Gordon, as somebody who watches the entire foreign policy establishment in this city, what effect is this having?

　　MICHAEL GORDON, Diplomatic Correspondent, The New York Times: Well, it doesn't help when your American administration is in a state of turmoil⁹.

　　You know, today, the head of the Special Operations Command, General Tony Thomas, said something that was really incredible. He said that — in a conference, he said that the — our own government, our American government, was in a state of turmoil, and this was very disconcerting for the military, because they needed stability at home in order to deal with wars abroad.

　　So, when your own generals are talking about it, you know it's having an effect.

　　迈克尔·弗林辞职 美国国家安全委员会陷入动荡

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Michael Gordon, as we said, you reported today about the Russians deploying¹⁰ a missile, violating a treaty. The Obama administration had protested, as we know, over a number of years. What does that represent?

　　MICHAEL GORDON: This is a very big deal.

　　This is — there was a treaty, the INF Treaty, signed by President Reagan and Mikhail Gorbachev, which led to the elimination¹¹ of all intermediate-range American and Russian missiles based on land. And it really sealed the end of the Cold War.

　　And what the Russians have now done is developed a missile that — and deployed¹² it. And this is — really flies in the face of the agreement. This is not a technical violation¹³. This is a violation at the heart of the agreement. Right now, it has more political significance than military significance.

　　But if they continue deploying these systems, it's something that the NATO alliance and General — Secretary Mattis is going to be there tomorrow — is really going to have to address.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: And so, Greg Miller, if the National Security Council were functioning under normal circumstances, wouldn't there have been some reaction to this, some anticipation¹⁴ of it?

　　GREG MILLER: I mean, that's the job of the National Security Council is to try to be a disciplined clearinghouse, gathering¹⁵ the views from across multiple agencies, teeing up decisions that make sense for the president.

　　I was told that all members of the National Security Council were summoned for an all-hands meeting at 10:00 a.m. this morning, and that it went for five minutes and it was basically a plea for people to stay in place and not head for the exits yet.

　　So, it's just a state of acute turmoil right now.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Does that compare, Greg Miller, to anything you have seen before?

　　GREG MILLER: Oh, none whatsoever¹⁶.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Michael Gordon, what about you?

　　I mean, when you look at the picture of what's going on at the National Security Council, the fact that — and I think you were telling us today, reminding us there is only one person who has been confirmed at the State Department, Secretary Tillerson.

　　What is the state of American national security right now, decision-making?

　　MICHAEL GORDON: Well, you can't make a decision about how to approach Russia if you have no deputy secretary of state, you have no assistant secretary for European affairs, you have no undersecretary of defense¹⁷ for policy, and you have no permanent national security adviser.

　　This is an important issue, and they simply don't have the people in place to begin to make intelligent decisions about what policy course they want to steer¹⁸.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: So, Greg Miller, I think the White House would say, well, we have appointed someone as an interim¹⁹. We are working hard to name a permanent replacement²⁰ as national security adviser.

　　Why aren't they correct to say, well, this is just a momentary²¹ blip, we're going to get on with business?

　　GREG MILLER: I mean, it's a — if this were in isolation²², perhaps you could accept that this were an ordinary blip. But the other problems that Michael Gordon just outlined, in addition to just sort of the — just the appearance of chaos²³ that you see, the images from the Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida this weekend, where the Trump officials and Trump himself appeared to be reacting to North Korean missile launch with — by pulling out their cell phones, in view of other guests at the restaurant.

　　I mean, across the board, it just looks like a lack of discipline and organization.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Very quickly, Michael Gordon, so, what are you keeping your eye on right now?

　　MICHAEL GORDON: Well, I think Secretary Mattis is going to be in Brussels tomorrow with the NATO allies. He's clearly got to deal with this missile threat, because this is a — strikes at the heart of an agreement that is very much valued, not by the — not only by the NATO allies, but by our Asian allies.

　　And so I think, tomorrow, we should at least see at least a glimmer²⁴ of an American response on this. So, I think that's the near-term thing to keep an eye on. The longer-term thing is that Mr. Flynn was — seemed to be cozying up to Putin. And now that he's gone, that might affect our broader policy toward Russia.

　　JUDY WOODRUFF: Michael Gordon, Greg Miller, thank you both.

1 upheaval   

n.胀起，(地壳)的隆起；剧变，动乱

参考例句：

• It was faced with the greatest social upheaval since World War Ⅱ.它面临第二次世界大战以来最大的社会动乱。
• The country has been thrown into an upheaval.这个国家已经陷入动乱之中。

2 miller   

n.磨坊主

参考例句：

• Every miller draws water to his own mill.磨坊主都往自己磨里注水。
• The skilful miller killed millions of lions with his ski.技术娴熟的磨坊主用雪橇杀死了上百万头狮子。

3 cumulative   

adj.累积的，渐增的

参考例句：

• This drug has a cumulative effect.这种药有渐增的效力。
• The benefits from eating fish are cumulative.吃鱼的好处要长期才能显现。

4 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

5 adviser   

n.劝告者，顾问

参考例句：

• They employed me as an adviser.他们聘请我当顾问。
• Our department has engaged a foreign teacher as phonetic adviser.我们系已经聘请了一位外籍老师作为语音顾问。

6 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

7 acting   

n.演戏，行为，假装；adj.代理的，临时的，演出用的

参考例句：

• Ignore her,she's just acting.别理她，她只是假装的。
• During the seventies,her acting career was in eclipse.在七十年代，她的表演生涯黯然失色。

8 discrepancy   

n.不同；不符；差异；矛盾

参考例句：

• The discrepancy in their ages seemed not to matter.他们之间年龄的差异似乎没有多大关系。
• There was a discrepancy in the two reports of the accident.关于那次事故的两则报道有不一致之处。

9 turmoil   

n.骚乱，混乱，动乱

参考例句：

• His mind was in such a turmoil that he couldn't get to sleep.内心的纷扰使他无法入睡。
• The robbery put the village in a turmoil.抢劫使全村陷入混乱。

10 deploying   

（尤指军事行动）使展开( deploy的现在分词 )； 施展； 部署； 有效地利用

参考例句：

• Provides support for developing and deploying distributed, component-based applications. 为开发和部署基于组件的分布式应用程序提供支持。
• Advertisement, publishing, repair, and install-on-demand are all available when deploying your application. 在部署应用程序时提供公布、发布、修复和即需即装功能。

11 elimination   

n.排除，消除，消灭

参考例句：

• Their elimination from the competition was a great surprise.他们在比赛中遭到淘汰是个很大的意外。
• I was eliminated from the 400 metres in the semi-finals.我在400米半决赛中被淘汰。

12 deployed   

（尤指军事行动）使展开( deploy的过去式和过去分词 )； 施展； 部署； 有效地利用

参考例句：

• Tanks have been deployed all along the front line. 沿整个前线已部署了坦克。
• The artillery was deployed to bear on the fort. 火炮是对着那个碉堡部署的。

13 violation   

n.违反(行为)，违背(行为)，侵犯

参考例句：

• He roared that was a violation of the rules.他大声说，那是违反规则的。
• He was fined 200 dollars for violation of traffic regulation.他因违反交通规则被罚款200美元。

14 anticipation   

n.预期，预料，期望

参考例句：

• We waited at the station in anticipation of her arrival.我们在车站等着，期待她的到来。
• The animals grew restless as if in anticipation of an earthquake.各种动物都变得焦躁不安，像是感到了地震即将发生。

15 gathering   

n.集会，聚会，聚集

参考例句：

• He called on Mr. White to speak at the gathering.他请怀特先生在集会上讲话。
• He is on the wing gathering material for his novels.他正忙于为他的小说收集资料。

16 whatsoever   

adv.（用于否定句中以加强语气）任何；pron.无论什么

参考例句：

• There's no reason whatsoever to turn down this suggestion.没有任何理由拒绝这个建议。
• All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,do ye even so to them.你想别人对你怎样，你就怎样对人。

17 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

18 steer   

vt.驾驶，为…操舵；引导；vi.驾驶

参考例句：

• If you push the car, I'll steer it.如果你来推车，我就来驾车。
• It's no use trying to steer the boy into a course of action that suits you.想说服这孩子按你的方式行事是徒劳的。

19 interim   

adj.暂时的，临时的；n.间歇，过渡期间

参考例句：

• The government is taking interim measures to help those in immediate need.政府正在采取临时措施帮助那些有立即需要的人。
• It may turn out to be an interim technology.这可能只是个过渡技术。

20 replacement   

n.取代，替换，交换；替代品，代用品

参考例句：

• We are hard put to find a replacement for our assistant.我们很难找到一个人来代替我们的助手。
• They put all the students through the replacement examination.他们让所有的学生参加分班考试。

21 momentary   

adj.片刻的，瞬息的；短暂的

参考例句：

• We are in momentary expectation of the arrival of you.我们无时无刻不在盼望你的到来。
• I caught a momentary glimpse of them.我瞥了他们一眼。

22 isolation   

n.隔离，孤立，分解，分离

参考例句：

• The millionaire lived in complete isolation from the outside world.这位富翁过着与世隔绝的生活。
• He retired and lived in relative isolation.他退休后，生活比较孤寂。

23 chaos   

n.混乱，无秩序

参考例句：

• After the failure of electricity supply the city was in chaos.停电后，城市一片混乱。
• The typhoon left chaos behind it.台风后一片混乱。

24 glimmer   

v.发出闪烁的微光；n.微光，微弱的闪光

参考例句：

• I looked at her and felt a glimmer of hope.我注视她，感到了一线希望。
• A glimmer of amusement showed in her eyes.她的眼中露出一丝笑意。