PBS高端访谈:选举人团投票即将开始

Hari Sreenivasan: For more on the President's continued baseless claims of victory, the Electoral College and the transition to a new presidential administration, Special Correspondent Jeff Greenfield joins us now from Santa Barbara. All right, Jeff, here we are, the President still contends that he did not lose this election, that it was rigged against him with no evidence. Tomorrow, 538 electors are supposed to meet. That is supposed to be the ultimate decision on making Joe Biden our next president by January 20th. Any last-minute twists?

斯雷瓦塞尼：有关总统继续毫无根据地宣称胜利、选举团和向新总统政府过渡的更多信息，特约记者杰夫·格林菲尔德现在从圣巴巴拉加入我们。好吧，杰夫，嗯嗯，总统仍然声称他没有输掉这次选举，选举是在没有证据的情况下对他进行的操纵。明天，538名选民将开会。这应该是在1月20日前让乔·拜登成为下一任总统的最终决定。最后一分钟有什么变化吗？

Jeff Greenfield: Once they cast their votes, there's one more step yet to go, and that is on January 6th, the new Congress meets in joint¹ session to formally accept the state-by-state returns. If one member of the House and one member of the Senate objects to any state's report, the Congress retreats to their respective chambers², they debate for two hours and vote. Now, given a Democratic House and enough Republican senators who already said 'enough,' the outcome is certain, although with Mike Pence as the presiding officer, Vice³ President, there could be further glitches⁴. But I do really think that, formally, January 6 should end it and Biden will be officially the president-elect.

杰夫·格林菲尔德：一旦他们投了票，还有一步要走，那就是1月6日，新一届国会召开联席会议，正式接受各州的回报。如果一名众议院议员和一名参议院议员反对任何一个州的报告，国会就退到各自的众议院，他们辩论两个小时并投票表决。现在，考虑到民主党众议院和足够多的共和党参议员已经说“够了”，结果是肯定的，尽管迈克·彭斯担任会议主持人、副总统，可能还会出现更多的小问题。但我真的认为，正式地说，1月6日应该结束，拜登将正式成为当选总统。

Hari Sreenivasan: At that point, do Republicans say, fine, Joe Biden is the next president?

斯雷瓦塞尼：那么，共和党人会说，好吧，乔·拜登是下一任总统吗？

Jeff Greenfield: On Earth one, I would say that, that's right. But you now have just today a CBS News poll showed something like 82 percent of Republicans or Trump⁵ voters think Biden was not legitimately⁶ elected. And a majority of Trump voters want Congress to keep fighting. So what you have here is a situation where we had 126 members of the House, Republicans, a majority, and a majority of Republican state attorneys-general asked the Supreme⁷ Court to invalidate millions of votes and literally⁸ turn those, those states over to the state legislature so that Trump could be reelected. Under those circumstances, I don't see any reason to think that you're going to find a, uh, 'OK, it's over. Let's all cooperate.'

杰夫·格林菲尔德：在地球一号，我会说，这是对的。但是，就在今天，哥伦比亚广播公司的民调显示，82%的共和党人或特朗普选民认为拜登没有合法当选。而大多数特朗普选民希望国会继续战斗。所以你们现在的情况是，我们有126名众议院议员，共和党人占多数，大多数共和党州检察长要求最高法院宣布数百万票无效，并将这些州交给州议会，以便特朗普能够连任。在这种情况下，我看不出有任何理由认为你会发现，呃，'好吧，结束了。让我们一起合作吧。

Hari Sreenivasan: So why? Why did that happen?

斯雷瓦塞尼：那为什么呢？为什么会这样？

Jeff Greenfield: You now have, deep in the Republican Party, a belief that expanding the right to vote, making it easy to vote, cost Trump the election. The mail-in ballots⁹, the way you could correct signature verification problems, more drop off places. It was the argument in the Supreme Court by the Texas Attorney General that only the state legislatures could do that, that election officials exceeded their power. And what I think you're going to see is Republicans being very, very careful that in the next election, they're going to make it harder to vote, because I think there's a belief, as I said, that it was too easy to vote this time. And the people who took advantage of that were, by and large, Democratic voters. And Republican state legislatures, they're just going to change the laws as much as they can, and their power is pretty complete to just tighten¹⁰ the ability to vote.

杰夫·格林菲尔德：你现在在共和党深处有一种信念，那就是扩大投票权，让投票变得容易，会让特朗普输掉选举。邮寄选票，你可以纠正签名验证问题的方式，更多的投递地点。德克萨斯州总检察长在最高法院的论点是，只有州立法机构才能这样做，选举官员越权了。我想你们会看到，共和党人非常非常小心，在下一次选举中，他们会让投票更加困难，因为我认为，正如我所说的，这次投票太容易了。而从中获益的人基本上都是民主党选民。共和党的州议会，他们会尽可能多地修改法律，他们的权力已经相当完备，只会收紧投票权。

Hari Sreenivasan: Where does this put the popular vote, in the grand scheme of things?

斯雷瓦塞尼：在这宏大的计划中，这把民意放在了哪里？

Jeff Greenfield: From 1952 to 1988, Republicans won the popular vote seven out of ten times. Since 1988, they've only won it once. It does seem that the Republican Party now believes it cannot win the popular vote and it has turn to the Electoral College and those close battleground states and tighter voting laws to have a chance at the presidency¹¹. Again, it's quite unusual in American politics and if I may say so, quite disheartening.

杰夫·格林菲尔德：从1952年到1988年，共和党十有八九赢得了民意支持。自1988年以来，他们只赢过一次。看来共和党现在确实认为自己无法赢得民意支持，它已经求助于选举团和那些竞争激烈的州和更严格的投票法，才有机会当选总统。再说一次，这在美国政治中是很不寻常的，如果我可以这么说的话，那是相当令人沮丧的。

Hari Sreenivasan: Just this week, we also saw a tension between Congress and the President over defense¹² spending reauthorization. Why is this significant?

斯雷瓦塞尼：就在本周，我们还看到了国会和总统在国防开支重新授权问题上的紧张关系。为什么这很重要？

Jeff Greenfield: Well, it's significant because this is the one time when the Congress may override¹³ a Trump veto. It hasn't happened in four years. Trump is saying, I'm going to veto this bill unless you change the law that limits liability of major telecommunications companies like Google and Facebook. And, I want the bill vetoed because I don't like the idea of changing the names of military installations named after Confederate. By and large, there are solid majorities always in Congress that support the troops, get this bill passed so that we're not left defenseless. And I think this would be the one time, particularly since Trump is pretty much certain to not be president for very longer, that the Republicans in Congress are willing to say, OK, on this one, we're not going along with you.

杰夫·格林菲尔德：嗯，这很重要，因为这一次国会可能会推翻特朗普的否决。已经四年没发生过了。特朗普说，除非你修改限制谷歌和脸书等主要电信公司责任的法律，否则我将否决这项法案。而且，我希望法案被否决，因为我不喜欢改变以邦联命名的军事设施的名称。总的来说，国会里总是有绝对多数的人支持军队，让这项法案获得通过，这样我们就不会手无寸铁。我认为这是唯一一次，特别是特朗普肯定不会再当总统了，国会的共和党人愿意说，好吧，在这一次，我们不会同意你的。

Hari Sreenivasan: Jeff Greenfield joining us from Santa Barbara, thanks so much.

斯雷瓦塞尼：杰夫格林菲尔德从圣巴巴拉加入我们，非常感谢。

Jeff Greenfield: Thank you, Hari.

杰夫·格林菲尔德：谢谢你，哈里。

1 joint   

adj.联合的，共同的；n.关节，接合处；v.连接，贴合

参考例句：

• I had a bad fall,which put my shoulder out of joint.我重重地摔了一跤，肩膀脫臼了。
• We wrote a letter in joint names.我们联名写了封信。

2 chambers   

n.房间( chamber的名词复数 )；（议会的）议院；卧室；会议厅

参考例句：

• The body will be removed into one of the cold storage chambers. 尸体将被移到一个冷冻间里。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• Mr Chambers's readable book concentrates on the middle passage: the time Ransome spent in Russia. Chambers先生的这本值得一看的书重点在中间：Ransome在俄国的那几年。 来自互联网

3 vice   

n.坏事；恶习；[pl.]台钳，老虎钳；adj.副的

参考例句：

• He guarded himself against vice.他避免染上坏习惯。
• They are sunk in the depth of vice.他们堕入了罪恶的深渊。

4 glitches   

n.小过失，差错( glitch的名词复数 )

参考例句：

• Manufacturing glitches have limited the factory's output. 生产中的故障影响了该厂的产量。 来自辞典例句
• Another kind of period variation,\"Glitches,\" are seen in several pulsars. 在几个脉冲星中还看到了周期的另一种变化，即“自转突快”现象。 来自辞典例句

5 trump   

n.王牌，法宝；v.打出王牌，吹喇叭

参考例句：

• He was never able to trump up the courage to have a showdown.他始终鼓不起勇气摊牌。
• The coach saved his star player for a trump card.教练保留他的明星选手，作为他的王牌。

6 legitimately   

ad.合法地；正当地，合理地

参考例句：

• The radio is legitimately owned by the company. 该电台为这家公司所合法拥有。
• She looked for nothing save what might come legitimately and without the appearance of special favour. 她要的并不是男人们的额外恩赐，而是合法正当地得到的工作。 来自英汉文学 - 嘉莉妹妹

7 supreme   

adj.极度的，最重要的；至高的，最高的

参考例句：

• It was the supreme moment in his life.那是他一生中最重要的时刻。
• He handed up the indictment to the supreme court.他把起诉书送交最高法院。

8 literally   

adv.照字面意义，逐字地；确实

参考例句：

• He translated the passage literally.他逐字逐句地翻译这段文字。
• Sometimes she would not sit down till she was literally faint.有时候，她不走到真正要昏厥了，决不肯坐下来。

9 ballots   

n.投票表决( ballot的名词复数 )；选举；选票；投票总数v.（使）投票表决( ballot的第三人称单数 )

参考例句：

• They're counting the ballots. 他们正在计算选票。 来自《简明英汉词典》
• The news of rigged ballots has rubbed off much of the shine of their election victory. 他们操纵选票的消息使他们在选举中获得的胜利大为减色。 来自《简明英汉词典》

10 tighten   

v.(使)变紧；(使)绷紧

参考例句：

• Turn the screw to the right to tighten it.向右转动螺钉把它拧紧。
• Some countries tighten monetary policy to avoid inflation.一些国家实行紧缩银根的货币政策，以避免通货膨胀。

11 presidency   

n.总统(校长，总经理)的职位(任期)

参考例句：

• Roosevelt was elected four times to the presidency of the United States.罗斯福连续当选四届美国总统。
• Two candidates are emerging as contestants for the presidency.两位候选人最终成为总统职位竞争者。

12 defense   

n.防御，保卫；[pl.]防务工事；辩护，答辩

参考例句：

• The accused has the right to defense.被告人有权获得辩护。
• The war has impacted the area with military and defense workers.战争使那个地区挤满了军队和防御工程人员。

13 override   

vt.不顾，不理睬，否决；压倒，优先于

参考例句：

• The welfare of a child should always override the wishes of its parents.孩子的幸福安康应该永远比父母的愿望来得更重要。
• I'm applying in advance for the authority to override him.我提前申请当局对他进行否决。